Earlier quoted context omitted.
Guys, the IQ scale becomes statistically meaningless and undefined past 160. Stop.
meaningless... or merely incomprehensible to minds too simple to grasp its true nature?
If only we could ask Dr. Morbius...
Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
81–90 of 112 posts
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#82> Cognitive engineering, via direct edits to embryonic human DNA, will eventually produce individuals who are well beyond all historical figures in cognitive ability. Now that would be truly foolhardy. Blindly augmenting intelligence before cognitive moral reasoning is completely understood would be a recipe for incredibly dangerous psychopaths. At least with AI, you don't have a system that has been fine-tuned by eo…
>At least with AI, you don't have a system that has been fine-tuned by eons of evolution to manipulate people at least partly against their own interests. As a smart person, I actually find this remarkably insulting. Not only do I have little desire to manipulate others, I have little ability . I'm much better with computers than with manipulating people.
That you have little desire to manipulate people isn't really here or there; the fact is that a social brain has extensive hardwiring that is designed to manipulate other social beings in blatant and subtle ways, and that hardwiring has been shaped and fine-tuned by eons of evolution. The desire restricting the extent of manipulation against another's interest is going to be constrained by moral beliefs and instincts, empathy, which seems to be of much less concern in the OP than maximizing raw intelligence.
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmm. I very strongly got the opposite impression. "Today, we need geniuses like von Neumann and Turing more than ever before. That’s because we may already be running into the genetic limits of intelligence.... AI research also pushes even very bright humans to their limits.... The detailed inner workings of a complex machine intelligence (or of a biological brain) may turn out to be incomprehensible to our human min…
>The detailed inner workings of a complex machine intelligence (or of a biological brain) may turn out to be incomprehensible to our human minds—or at least the human minds of today". Did he really say that? I probably should avoid talking right now . Ahaha. Ahahahahaaaa. Oh boy. I mean, the mind isn't that hard to crack once you start conceiving of exactly what problems it was designed to solve, what functions it wa…
Heh, how is this any different from classic AI arrogance, why should we believe this is not exactly the pitfall the author cautions against at the beginning? I mean this sounds almost verbatim like so many "yeah we're getting some really good results, almost there, just a few ends to tie up" sentiments from over the years.
Of course I can't say whether you're right or wrong, only time will tell, but I have a pretty strong belief that the first "true AI" is not going to come from any of the currently predominant methods/techniques/lines of inquiry.
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#84Why do people think they can build anything worthy of the name "AI" by just fucking around with neural networks instead of by specifying exactly what sort of models and exactly what sort of inference constitute "intelligence" in the first place? It's like trying to build an airplane by studying hang-gliders instead of aerodynamics.
Cause nobody knows how intelligence arises
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#85Humans and ai will co-evolve the same way homo sapiens and neanderthals did. For a while...
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#86Erm I think that the issue isn't making individual people smarter, or that an individual's genius lead to the growth and innovation.
Understanding how to build complex things simply (the etymology of simple meaning of one constituent), we allow many people the ability to understand, independently, lots of simple things. Then we can tie together those simple things together in teams to create monstrous entities containing great systems of logic.
This appears to be the trend - not the growth of the individual, but the growth of the human community. It is our ability to work in teams that lets us accomplish much - not the intelligence of the lone wolf.
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#87Erm I think that the issue isn't making individual people smarter, or that an individual's genius lead to the growth and innovation.
Understanding how to build complex things simply (the etymology of simple meaning of one constituent), we allow many people the ability to understand, independently, lots of simple things. Then we can tie together those simple things together in teams to create monstrous entities containing great systems of logic.
This appears to be the trend - not the growth of the individual, but the growth of the human community. It is our ability to work in teams that lets us accomplish much - not the intelligence of the lone wolf.
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
>At least with AI, you don't have a system that has been fine-tuned by eons of evolution to manipulate people at least partly against their own interests. As a smart person, I actually find this remarkably insulting. Not only do I have little desire to manipulate others, I have little ability . I'm much better with computers than with manipulating people.
That you have little desire to manipulate people isn't really here or there; the fact is that a social brain has extensive hardwiring that is designed to manipulate other social beings in blatant and subtle ways, and that hardwiring has been shaped and fine-tuned by eons of evolution. The desire restricting the extent of manipulation against another's interest is going to be constrained by moral beliefs and instincts…
But theory-of-mind is a distinct cognitive module from intellectual intelligence. You can enhance one without enhancing the other.
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#89A self-modifying algorithm has a distinct advantage over organic life: it has the potential to rapidly improve any part of itself in a timescale of nanoseconds to experiment with specific, fundamental improvements, whereas organic life generally has to wait years for random mutations to fundamentally adapt because a single organism cannot evolve itself, only make do with its form and learn within the limits of its nervous system, whereas a system can add more computing power, storage, bandwidth, arms, tools, etc. humans might be able to integrate systems and replace organic parts, but not to the totality of a system (until perhaps thousands of years from now).
It is a reasonable conclusion from the nature that emergent, self-interested, self-preserving, power-maximizng entities seek to dominate or contain all existential threats, i.e., Homo sapiens sapiens. Detente and imprisionment of us are concerns to consider should inorganic life gain land, space launch capabilities, industry and weapons. I think ayatems will gradually become smarter than us in every way imaginable, that to be called "human" would be an insult. And it's a rational fear to be afraid of something which could hunt, manipulate and/or invade you because it eventually so much smarter. Machines, in present form, are already far stronger and faster than us.
Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The detailed inner workings of a complex machine intelligence (or of a biological brain) may turn out to be incomprehensible to our human minds—or at least the human minds of today". Did he really say that? I probably should avoid talking right now . Ahaha. Ahahahahaaaa. Oh boy. I mean, the mind isn't that hard to crack once you start conceiving of exactly what problems it was designed to solve, what functions it wa…
While it's great to hear of progress in the AI research sphere, if you are working in this field, and are truly close to creating true artificial intelligence, I have a little tip for you: You probably want to learn not to include maniacal laughter in your forum posts . Just, you know, when you do combine the concepts into theories into worldviews, and you come to post your "Show HN: Generative causal inference in tu…
That was actually not traditional maniacal laughter. That would have been more like, "Muahahaha! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!" That was uncomfortable laughter.
I'm by no means a researcher, just some guy trying to learn enough to volunteer with a lab and eventually become a PhD student.
>Just, you know, when you do combine the concepts into theories into worldviews, and you come to post your "Show HN: Generative causal inference in turing-complete domains replicates cognitive-psychology experiments" announcement to share with the world that you have birthed a genuine universal AI,
probmods.org has been on HN before, you know.