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Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

nautil.us

31–40 of 112 posts

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#31
What a bizarre logical leap this early paragraph makes to try to explain why AI is beyond the capabilities of mere humans:

"AI can be thought of as a search problem over an effectively infinite, high-dimensional landscape of possible programs. Nature solved this search problem by brute force, effectively performing a huge computation involving trillions of evolving agents of varying information processing capability in a complex environment (the Earth). It took billions of years to go from the first tiny DNA replicators to Homo Sapiens. ... we have little idea of how to find the tiny subset of all possible programs running on this hardware that would exhibit intelligent behavior."

That's... a bizarre argument. You might as well argue that since heavier-than-air-flight is a search problem over an effectively infinite, high-dimensional landscape of possible machines - and that since it took evolution billions of years to produce birds, we have little chance of stumbling upon a working design for a wing.

Of course evolution's 'brute force' breadth-first hillclimb takes billions of years to find solutions to problems. It's undirected and unintelligent. Engineers don't have to perform undirected unintelligent searches across the infinite space of possible solutions to problems, they can think and plan and learn. I see no reason to see AI as a particularly different class of scientific endeavor, more complex than rocket science or nuclear engineering or biochemistry, such that ordinary, unenhanced human brains can't hope to comprehend it sufficiently to design machines that are capable of intelligence. This sounds a little like an 'if man were meant to fly, god would've given us wings' argument.

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#32
post #19
post #2

> It is easy to forget that the computer revolution was led by a handful of geniuses: individuals with truly unusual cognitive ability. Great man theory needs to be strangled and put to rest.

Why? This statement is certainly true. You can expand the range of people with any plausible contribution until it's not, but doing so would be an ideological exercise at best. Von Neumann, Shannon, Turing, Weiner, Hopper and many more, on through Wozniak, Torvalds, I could go on and on. There's nothing wrong with calling extraordinary intellect what it is.

You could probably name 1,000 people that made significant contributions to the computer field, but that 1,000 had less impact than everyone else put together especially when you ignore fashion. AKA If we lost Linux, but kept BSD then not much would have changed.

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#33
post #24

Pre-genetic-augmentation human intelligence doesn't have to be plain old meat, either-- there's a renaissance of cognitive enhancement occurring right now in the nootropic field, with many different chemical compounds under investigation along with a few less traditional approaches like Thync/tDCS or "brain exercises". As far as eugenic paring of the human gene line toward higher intelligence goes, I wouldn't think a…

I feel people vastly underestimate the difficulty with enhancement. Disease, insanity, obsession, boredom, depression, and on and on it goes. Even twins can have dramatically different physical and mental strengths. Personally, I suspect this has to do with sci-fi generally hand waving away such things.

Yeah, I think people tend to discount or forget the eccentricity and maladaptivity of ultra-high intellect people. I think it's also possible to be paralyzed by high intelligence as a result of existential angst-- a problem that intellect is poor at solving.

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Get me a Coke..." was accomplished in 1972 by Terry Winograd's SHRDLU and many 3rd gen AI systems since. NNs will almost certainly succeed where expert systems failed, largely because we now understand that no single monolithic pattern matcher will suffice alone. Any cognitive engine must be composed of many components, each attuned to a different purpose and context. And now we better recognize the huge need for le…

Sorry, I meant as a product. Why can't I buy a robot today that can handle "get me a coke" or "fill the dishwasher" or "mow the lawn."

That is a problem of robotic hardware, not AI. It's really easy to hook up a microcontroller to get mic input and query a voice recognition server (backed by some sort of AI software) and then do commands based on interpretation of the result (more AI software). The hard part is actually being able to do the commands. There's a reason the service industry hasn't been totally destroyed by robotics yet, and it's simply because it's hard to get robots to interact with the physical world with any sort of generality. Though lawns are simple and standard enough there have been lawn-Roombas for a long time.

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#36

What a bizarre logical leap this early paragraph makes to try to explain why AI is beyond the capabilities of mere humans: "AI can be thought of as a search problem over an effectively infinite, high-dimensional landscape of possible programs. Nature solved this search problem by brute force, effectively performing a huge computation involving trillions of evolving agents of varying information processing capability…

Huh? He's not arguing that "AI is beyond the capabilities of mere humans". (Where did you get that from?) He's arguing that it's a hard problem, that the presence of lots of brains can lead people to mistakenly conclude it's easy, and that it will be easier with smarter humans. His argument would have worked just as well concerning heavier-than-air-flight, meaning that just because we see birds everywhere doesn't mean it's easy.

It's conceivable that un-aided humans are too dumb to crack intelligence from the ground up (and therefore would have to brute-force the solution through simulation), but Hsu isn't even arguing for that.

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#37

What a bizarre logical leap this early paragraph makes to try to explain why AI is beyond the capabilities of mere humans: "AI can be thought of as a search problem over an effectively infinite, high-dimensional landscape of possible programs. Nature solved this search problem by brute force, effectively performing a huge computation involving trillions of evolving agents of varying information processing capability…

"You might as well argue that since heavier-than-air-flight is a search problem over an effectively infinite, high-dimensional landscape of possible machines - and that since it took evolution billions of years to produce birds, we have little chance of stumbling upon a working design for a wing."

Tired analogies between AI and flight are dead-ends. Until we have identified AI-side components of the analogy that corresponds to "air", "wing", "lift" &c., the analogy is empty and unproductive.

IOW these analogies neither get us off the ground nor do they take us anywhere.

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#38

Why do people think they can build anything worthy of the name "AI" by just fucking around with neural networks instead of by specifying exactly what sort of models and exactly what sort of inference constitute "intelligence" in the first place? It's like trying to build an airplane by studying hang-gliders instead of aerodynamics.

> Why do people think they can build anything worthy of the name "AI" by just fucking around with neural networks

Are attributing that position to the author? I don't think that's what he's saying at all (italics mine):

> The frontier machine intelligence architecture [at] the moment uses deep neural nets.... Silicon brains of this kind...have recently surpassed human performance on a number of narrowly defined tasks...We are learning how to tune deep neural nets using large samples of training data, but the resulting structures are mysterious to us. The theoretical basis for this work is still primitive, and it remains largely an empirical black art.

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#39

What a bizarre logical leap this early paragraph makes to try to explain why AI is beyond the capabilities of mere humans: "AI can be thought of as a search problem over an effectively infinite, high-dimensional landscape of possible programs. Nature solved this search problem by brute force, effectively performing a huge computation involving trillions of evolving agents of varying information processing capability…

Also, the somewhat more troubling genetic explanation for individual's achievements (e.g. von Neumann), based on anecdotes from "some guy who knew him" and "some guy who works at MIT". Genetics surely has a part to play in intelligence, but to say that it will turn out to be the determining factor in leu of resources or environment seems to me a bit of an extraordinary claim.

I love and agree with the premise that AI augmented people will be enormously more productive than traditionally intelligent people, but I think that access to educational and child rearing resources will define the difference, not genetics.

Re: Why human intelligence and AI will co-evolve

#40
post #29
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? This statement is certainly true. You can expand the range of people with any plausible contribution until it's not, but doing so would be an ideological exercise at best. Von Neumann, Shannon, Turing, Weiner, Hopper and many more, on through Wozniak, Torvalds, I could go on and on. There's nothing wrong with calling extraordinary intellect what it is.

I think the objection isn't that those people didn't make huge and transformative contributions to the field. Rather, it is the tone set by the use of the worshippy word "genius", which has a murky, and totally relative definition, and the phrase "unusual cognitive ability", which implies that their abilities uniquely set these people apart from others who we don't worship in the same way. Uncounted numbers people ha…

Some people run faster than others, some people think better. This is not worship, merely the celebration of the best intellectual performers.
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