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Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

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11–20 of 49 posts

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#11

No data for the following. One important "fact" people do not know is much of the western philosophical works (and other disciplines) we know today (from Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc...) are from Arabic writings. Apparently when the Muslim Arabs decided to go and conquer the West, they would take down libraries and rewrite all the knowledge in one language (Arabic). They sent out paid emissaries to the "Four corne…

According to Wikipedia, at least the writings of Plato seem to have come to the west during the middle ages from byzantine (i.e. Greek) sources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato#Textual_sources_and_hist...

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#12
Here is another piece of story that is not in the article.

When Alexander tried to enter Afghanistan he was met with fierce resistance. Didn't matter what he did, he couldn't quench the uprisings and could not conquer the country. After losing a lot of men, he wrote to Aristotle for advise. Aristotle asked Alexander for a sample of Afghan soil to be shipped to him. Upon receipt of the soil samples, Aristotle laid them under the Court carpet and very soon started noticing that men of the court started fighting and killing each other. They became defiant to authority and that led Aristotle to the conclusion, that there is something unique and bizarre w/ the Afghan soil that makes men fight to the end ... and in a way .. remain as an unconquerable nation. He wrote back to Alexander to with draw from Afghanistan, and which he did.

To this day, from Alexander to British to Russia .. Afghanistan has remained pretty defiant to foreign occupation. We will see how long the US will stay there.

[note: The above story was passed onto us Afghans for generations and other than referencing my grandpa who is no longer w/ us, I unfortunately can't provide any references. So take it w/ a grain of salt.]

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#14
I must be reading something incorrectly. Certainly I didn't hear about these exchanges before. But is it correct that most of the exchanges can be boiled down to "be nice to people"? I always thought politics was based on keeping control of import political powers like media, military, law, food, and money while replacing people in high positions who don't work for you with people that you improved to these positions so that they will follow your rule. In some regard that's nice, at least to the people you improved, but in another regard it's also a selfish business. Can one go to another country, declare oneself as their leader and then just lead by being nice?

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#15

No data for the following. One important "fact" people do not know is much of the western philosophical works (and other disciplines) we know today (from Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc...) are from Arabic writings. Apparently when the Muslim Arabs decided to go and conquer the West, they would take down libraries and rewrite all the knowledge in one language (Arabic). They sent out paid emissaries to the "Four corne…

Are you comparing Google to the Caliphate?

everybody knows that Google was founded by Caliph Ali's ghost working in conjunction with a dashing L. Ron Hubbard clone.

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#16
I just finished a Biography on Alexander the Great (Titled: Alexander the Great, The Hunt for a New Past. by Paul Cartledge), which I found to be very good because the author delves into the various sources of information on Alexander, which I found to be surprisingly scant as much has been lost and much has been handed down to us second hand in summarized form (such as through Plutarch). Alexander had his own personal biographer (who accompanied him on his campaign), Callisthenes put to death.

A great quote from the book: "The situation we are faced with can be summed up roughly as followes. Inspired by the example of Theopompus and his pioneering Philippica (a history of Greece written around the career of Philip II of Macedon, Alexander's father), more than twenty contemporaries wrote histories or other kinds of work on Alexander. Not one of these histories survives in the original. Of the many letters ascribed to Alexander, just one extract of one of them has a better than average claim to being genuine. The earliest surviving connected narrative account of Alexander's campaigns was composed in the first century BCE, some three hundred years after the events it relates; it is, besides, only incompletely preserved. Thus the sole connected narrative to have survived complete is a third century CE epitome, or abrigment, of a first-century BCE work in Latin by a Romanized Gaul. Finally, what is generally today accounted the best of the more or less completely surviving histories of Alexander was written by a Greek philosopher-statesman in the second century CE, probably during the reigh of the philhellinic emperor Hadrian. In short, 'it is as if the history of Tudor England could only be recovered from Macaulay's essays and the histories of Hume the philospher' (Robin Lane Fox)."

I'll admit, being an American I don't quite grasp the full context of that quote but you can get the gist. Basically, I wouldn't take this letter for actually being true (which the title rightly states as being apocryphal) and rather read take it in its own context of someone, probably a much later Arabic (edit: or Persian) writer using the story of Alexander as a means of conveying their thoughts.

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#17
post #12

Here is another piece of story that is not in the article. When Alexander tried to enter Afghanistan he was met with fierce resistance. Didn't matter what he did, he couldn't quench the uprisings and could not conquer the country. After losing a lot of men, he wrote to Aristotle for advise. Aristotle asked Alexander for a sample of Afghan soil to be shipped to him. Upon receipt of the soil samples, Aristotle laid the…

I do not know a lot of countries which have not been defiants to foreign occupation. I'll put it harshly but it sounds a lot like propaganda. And as you can see on this map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great#/media/Fil..., he did invade Afghanistan, and even a part of today India.

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#18
post #17
post #12

Here is another piece of story that is not in the article. When Alexander tried to enter Afghanistan he was met with fierce resistance. Didn't matter what he did, he couldn't quench the uprisings and could not conquer the country. After losing a lot of men, he wrote to Aristotle for advise. Aristotle asked Alexander for a sample of Afghan soil to be shipped to him. Upon receipt of the soil samples, Aristotle laid the…

I do not know a lot of countries which have not been defiants to foreign occupation. I'll put it harshly but it sounds a lot like propaganda. And as you can see on this map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great#/media/Fil... , he did invade Afghanistan, and even a part of today India.

I'd hardly call it propaganda, it's merely a folk tale that reflects the cultural context within which it was developed. Sort of like the founding of Rome.

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#19
post #12

Here is another piece of story that is not in the article. When Alexander tried to enter Afghanistan he was met with fierce resistance. Didn't matter what he did, he couldn't quench the uprisings and could not conquer the country. After losing a lot of men, he wrote to Aristotle for advise. Aristotle asked Alexander for a sample of Afghan soil to be shipped to him. Upon receipt of the soil samples, Aristotle laid the…

My Dad, who is known for spinning tales, once told me a story about a bomb wiping out the Chinese officers on a boat as they posed with it for a photograph. It had been left there by nationalists. This was the 60s, so the communists had only been in power a fairly short while. Also, just for context, this is in the days before super tankers when there were a lot more ships at sea and they were a lot smaller.

Because they had no-one to pilot the vessel they'd sent out distress calls and my Dad's ship went to aid. Now, technically, this counts as [some nautical term for salvageable rescue] and the crew of the rescuing ship is allowed a proportion of the cargo, so they'd have made quite a lot of money. So they're trying to get an officer swung over there in a swing to board the vessel, but can't because the seas are too choppy, so they end up telling the ship to follow theirs and they get them back to port (but forfeit the rescue money as they didn't actually provide anyone to pilot the vessel).

It gets in to harbour and a pilot goes out to take the vessel in (this is standard practice, local pilots always take a ship into port). He sits down in the chair, feels under the chair, thinks, hmm, that's odd and looks underneath only to discover another bomb!

Luckily that one was disposed of safely.

I thought this was a load of bollocks so I went home and researched it. Wikipedia confidently told me there had been no such bombings or conflict between nationalist Chinese and the Communists in the 60s. It even had a list of all the incidents, and no ship bomb is on there. I subsequently told my Dad it was a load of bollocks, and he got quite upset and ended up emailing me a photo of his log book to show he was on the boat in question, the only evidence he had.

Once I had the name of the boat, the Loch Gowan, suddenly I could google more confidently and lo and behold:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19661114&id=...

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19661113&id=...

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1734&dat=19661114&id=...

Turns out he'd exaggerated a couple of details, but mostly, it was true. The captain had been killed, the 2nd officer at least injured, the 3rd officer wasn't experienced enough to pilot the ship.

Moral of the story, just because the internet can't back it up, doesn't mean it's not true! And it turns out my Dad doesn't always fib. And, wow, Google has load of old newspapers scanned and OCR'd.

Re: Aristotle’s (apocryphal) advice to Alexander the Great on Persian elites (2013)

#20
post #11

No data for the following. One important "fact" people do not know is much of the western philosophical works (and other disciplines) we know today (from Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc...) are from Arabic writings. Apparently when the Muslim Arabs decided to go and conquer the West, they would take down libraries and rewrite all the knowledge in one language (Arabic). They sent out paid emissaries to the "Four corne…

According to Wikipedia, at least the writings of Plato seem to have come to the west during the middle ages from byzantine (i.e. Greek) sources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato#Textual_sources_and_hist...

Yup. It feels strange to completely dismiss the one link between Antiquity and the Renaissance: the Roman Empire, or Byzantium as we now know it.
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