Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#11

Post by stcredzero » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 6:58 PM UTC

yc1010 wrote: post #10

cassetti wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of weeks ago I talked to the CEO of startup in NYC building a proprietary blockchain-like protocol/product for banks. According to him if a bank interacts with the bitcoin blockchain in any way (mining and/or posting transactions), they are violating a host of AML and KYC regulations because they do not know the identity of other players on the network. Apparently the claim could be made that the bank is col…

It seems to me that some are overstating their case and believing their bullshit in order to sell the banks a rotten tomato when a perfectly healthy potato exists. Sort of how years ago some people/companies would claim that using Linux in enterprise would cause all sorts of issues for said companies in order to sell their own propritary and nonopen solution.....

Yes, but if the banks set up their own Bitcoin-like blockchain but with an added certificate authority, then they'd be putting their money where their mouth is, and then you'd be the one looking like you're overstating your case.

As a media skeptic, the 1st suspect is the one who is ascribing motivations to other parties/groups with no evidence. This goes double when something "technical" overlooks technical alternatives that would demolish one's own argument.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#12

Post by yc1010 » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 7:02 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #11

yc1010 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that some are overstating their case and believing their bullshit in order to sell the banks a rotten tomato when a perfectly healthy potato exists. Sort of how years ago some people/companies would claim that using Linux in enterprise would cause all sorts of issues for said companies in order to sell their own propritary and nonopen solution.....

Yes, but if the banks set up their own Bitcoin-like blockchain but with an added certificate authority, then they'd be putting their money where their mouth is, and then you'd be the one looking like you're overstating your case. As a media skeptic, the 1st suspect is the one who is ascribing motivations to other parties/groups with no evidence. This goes double when something "technical" overlooks technical alternat…

Nothing stopping them from doing so, tho the use of a blockchain in such a "centralized" context is silly and an overkill when they can use a normal database with better/faster results especially if they already know+trust each other.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#13

Post by jsprogrammer » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 7:12 PM UTC

cassetti wrote: post #8

mikeyouse wrote: post #2

I can't believe that there's any possibility of banks doing anything of value on the Bitcoin blockchain when they could easily coopt the blockchain tech and set up trusted miners. The public immutable ledger with full transaction history is obviously interesting to Wall St. but what are the chances any of these banks will trust anything of value to the current ideological devs of a ~$3B commodity controlled entirely…

A couple of weeks ago I talked to the CEO of startup in NYC building a proprietary blockchain-like protocol/product for banks. According to him if a bank interacts with the bitcoin blockchain in any way (mining and/or posting transactions), they are violating a host of AML and KYC regulations because they do not know the identity of other players on the network. Apparently the claim could be made that the bank is col…

The obvious question here is: Why do banks need Bitcoin?

Why does Bitcoin need banks?

Who cares if current banks ever figure out Bitcoin? For the vast majority of people and use cases, Bitcoin makes banks redundant.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#14

Post by tcbawo » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 7:26 PM UTC

This has been posted here before, but many financial firms are interested in a block chain concept (not necessarily bitcoin) for processing settlements. I imagine it will be the same clearing houses and broker-dealers of today, except that counter-party risk is reduced.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#15

Post by Animats » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 7:42 PM UTC

This has nothing to do with Bitcoin. The interest is in distributed ledgers. It's a way to do a distributed clearing house. When twenty or so mutually mistrustful financial firms maintain a blockchain between them, they can have a ledger that no single party, or less than a majority of the parties, can tamper with.

This doesn't require Bitcoins, a currency, or mining. It's a way to solve a problem that currently requires institutions such as the Bank for International Settlements and Depository Trust Corporation.

Bitcoin has demonstrated that the blockchain technology is resistant to attack. Even against massive fraud attempts, and even though many of the major figures in the Bitcoin world ended up going to jail, the blockchain held up. That's impressive.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#16

Post by wyldfire » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 7:44 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #15

This has nothing to do with Bitcoin. The interest is in distributed ledgers. It's a way to do a distributed clearing house. When twenty or so mutually mistrustful financial firms maintain a blockchain between them, they can have a ledger that no single party, or less than a majority of the parties, can tamper with. This doesn't require Bitcoins, a currency, or mining. It's a way to solve a problem that currently requ…

Is twenty enough parties to give them each confidence that the network is trustworthy? Seems to easily manipulated it only takes a couple of dishonest parties to defraud the rest.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#17

Post by f3llowtraveler » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 7:48 PM UTC

1971genocide wrote: post #7

Bitcoin's underlying problem as a monetary system is the same that exists with commodity based currencies like gold. Almost all economical models that exists out there always reach a point of indeterminacy. What happens when there is massive inequality in the bitcoin world ? Money has one important purpose : 1) Efficient allocation of labor for society's benefit. To achieve it we need to establish something that can…

> If we lived in a bitcoin world it would be impossible for governments to mobilize itself to direct resources to solve social problems.

Thank god. Can't happen soon enough.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#18

Post by Animats » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 8:10 PM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #16

Animats wrote: post #15

This has nothing to do with Bitcoin. The interest is in distributed ledgers. It's a way to do a distributed clearing house. When twenty or so mutually mistrustful financial firms maintain a blockchain between them, they can have a ledger that no single party, or less than a majority of the parties, can tamper with. This doesn't require Bitcoins, a currency, or mining. It's a way to solve a problem that currently requ…

Is twenty enough parties to give them each confidence that the network is trustworthy? Seems to easily manipulated it only takes a couple of dishonest parties to defraud the rest.

When the ledger is public, yes. Everyone can see tampering. Right now, the top 3 Bitcoin mining pools have 52% majority control of Bitcoin. The top 6 have 80% control. Bitcoin mining hasn't been distributed for a long time now.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#19

Post by ilaksh » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 9:05 PM UTC

1971genocide wrote: post #7

Bitcoin's underlying problem as a monetary system is the same that exists with commodity based currencies like gold. Almost all economical models that exists out there always reach a point of indeterminacy. What happens when there is massive inequality in the bitcoin world ? Money has one important purpose : 1) Efficient allocation of labor for society's benefit. To achieve it we need to establish something that can…

> Money has one important purpose : 1) Efficient allocation of labor for society's benefit.

The real numbers show that maybe around a billion are obtaining much more benefit than they other 5/6 billion, and often because of the have-nots' labor.

So on that basis you are wrong. But also, tevhnology is rapidly making labor irrelevant, as more and more work is automated.

> Since by definition society requires centralization to direct its purpose.

Bitcoin is an example of a decentralized system with a common purpose. So is bittorrent. Or see any technology for distributing work or decision making.

Centralization in economics or politics leads to stagnation, authoritarianism, inequality. It is the primary problem that technology allows us to solve. Ordinary money was the first technology for solving over-centralization. We can do much better.

Re: Bitcoin Technology Piques Interest on Wall Street

#20

Post by brighton36 » Sat, Aug 29, 2015, 9:53 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #18

wyldfire wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is twenty enough parties to give them each confidence that the network is trustworthy? Seems to easily manipulated it only takes a couple of dishonest parties to defraud the rest.

When the ledger is public, yes. Everyone can see tampering. Right now, the top 3 Bitcoin mining pools have 52% majority control of Bitcoin. The top 6 have 80% control. Bitcoin mining hasn't been distributed for a long time now.

"Seeing" tampering is a completely different proposition than preventing tampering. Any good centralized architecture can demonstrate tampering. Google docs does this all the time.