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Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

johndcook.com

81–90 of 133 posts

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#81
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the developers you couldn't see be 10x better than the developers you can see? Could there be a dark matter halo of great programmers lurking around the world's mediocre-programmer-filled corporate cubicals?

I meant "the developers you can see" to imply the people around you. That's a small sample size, and not representative of the entire world.

A small sample size would just imply greater deviation. There's no reason to assume the programmers outside your sample would be x10 better than those in your sample.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#82
post #16

The author has not ever worked with the truly 10x more productive programmers. Most people do not get the chance to work with these programmers. They do get paid in proportion to their productivity. There are so many horrible programmers that you can be mediocre and be 10x more productive than the guy next to you. Thus you think you're in the 10x crew. But you really aren't. It's not because you're really that good.…

Hmm,

I remember using Gnutella back in the day. It was horribly buggy and slow. Maybe Frankel didn't write that one or maybe being satisfying things half-working was the secret to x100 productivity.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#84
post #16

The author has not ever worked with the truly 10x more productive programmers. Most people do not get the chance to work with these programmers. They do get paid in proportion to their productivity. There are so many horrible programmers that you can be mediocre and be 10x more productive than the guy next to you. Thus you think you're in the 10x crew. But you really aren't. It's not because you're really that good.…

What was his version of Pro Tools called? I'm curious, that's all.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#85
post #42
post #38

what kind of salaried professionals do get paid based on productivity?

The only people who get paid according to their productivity are the ones that own their own business, individually or collectively (in a partnership). Everyone else is paid "market rate" which is the lowest rate someone else is willing to accept to do the same job, and is able to deliver. These are completely different compensation models.

Or any analogue of being paid for piece-work.

I guess some salesmen would fall into this category, as it´s easy to measure their productivity.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practice will make you better, certainly, but different people learn at different speeds, and have different ceilings. Potential is not necessarily proportional to practice. So, what he may be able to do in a year may take you twenty, or a week. Practice isn't the only factor where ability is concerned.

I'm skeptical. What evidence do you have for this? Maybe some people who have a better start (those who are "naturally" talented) receive better instruction, or are more inclined to practice more often.

Programming ability is more like athletic ability than most people want to admit. Some guys just get better, faster. Some guys can't ever break certain plateaus, no matter how hard they try. In golf, it's probably possible for anyone to go from a duffer to a scratch golfer. But it might take 20 years of work for someone who isn't set up with the right natural gifts. Quality and amount of instruction and practice will determine some of the pace. But some people will just get it faster than others. And even "elite" golfers simply won't be as good as Tiger Woods, ever.

I used to be a good skateboarder. There were guys I skated with who could learn the tricks 5 times faster than I could. I don't know why. We all skated the same amount... in fact, some of the guys who were better than me skated a lot less than I did. They just had something clicking that I didn't have.

I'm a proponent of self-improvement. I think most average people can develop skills far and beyond what they give themselves credit for. I hate to be the guy who is arguing for mystical innate ability. However, it seems naive to claim that it doesn't exist.

To end this comment on a useful note, the one thing I noticed both with the good skateboarders and the good programmers I know, is that they would 'go big' when practicing. the skaters would try something hard and figure it out until they got it. They wouldn't just sit around and do the same kickflip in a parking lot over and over again.

Likewise, the good programmers I knew would always be seriously challenging themselves. For practice programs, they wouldn't just write a dumb fibonacci generator. They'd write a full blown throttling distributed network file copier, or a scheme compiler in postscript. Serious, hard projects for practice. Most programming is mundane and you can go for years without getting any better. The best guys I know are never complacent with doing the same boring shit all day - they'd always challenge themselves.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#87
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant "the developers you can see" to imply the people around you. That's a small sample size, and not representative of the entire world.

A small sample size would just imply greater deviation. There's no reason to assume the programmers outside your sample would be x10 better than those in your sample.

That only works when you can assume your sample is representative of the global population. Since people are not evenly distributed according to their abilities, that assumption will not hold.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#88
I'm starting to get a little burned out about trying to maximize my productivity. It's not a easy-to-understand, linear thing in most professions. No one really knows how to accurately measure it, and once you come up with something, you can game that system to produce false results if it benefits you.

I think the best approach for anyone is to do the best you can with what you have. It's more important to get something done than to worry about if the amount you got done is greater than most others. You certainly should do whatever you feel you need to do to optimize your "productivity", but don't get distracted or depressed trying to be #1 in the world.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#89
I'm young enough that I can still change my career easily, and I often worry that I'm not one of the super productive programmers, and that I'm wasting my time and that I should choosing a different career.

Is uber-productivity significantly enhanced by choosing the right development methodology (e.g. test-driven development) or is it mostly something innate? Aside from stories like rdouble's (which I don't find that helpful, since it doesn't contain information on rdouble or his employer's domain expertise), what is the evidence that super-productive programmers exist?

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#90
post #84
post #16

The author has not ever worked with the truly 10x more productive programmers. Most people do not get the chance to work with these programmers. They do get paid in proportion to their productivity. There are so many horrible programmers that you can be mediocre and be 10x more productive than the guy next to you. Thus you think you're in the 10x crew. But you really aren't. It's not because you're really that good.…

What was his version of Pro Tools called? I'm curious, that's all.

http://www.reaper.fm/
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