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The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
11–20 of 116 posts
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#12Fascinating history. It's strange to see what the various jujitsu-descended arts choose as their comfort level with injury. The traditional jujitsu ryu had lots of maming / killing techniques, which have been taken out and readded depending on the art: Judo focused on making a very safe art that could be applied full-intensity in a sporting context. Aikido focussed on making a purely defensive art. Then Gracie jujits…
>broken eye sockets and arms aren't enough to call a fight.
That is just wrong. In any professional MMA organization, fights are called at this point to prevent permanent injury to the fighters so that they can sustain a long career.
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#13Fascinating history. It's strange to see what the various jujitsu-descended arts choose as their comfort level with injury. The traditional jujitsu ryu had lots of maming / killing techniques, which have been taken out and readded depending on the art: Judo focused on making a very safe art that could be applied full-intensity in a sporting context. Aikido focussed on making a purely defensive art. Then Gracie jujits…
Cagefighting came into existence as a way to test the efficacy of traditional martial arts. So much of what is taught is complete rubbish ("lethal techniques" that only ever practised against compliant opponents, etc.). All the beautiful movements and choreographed dancing of traditional martial arts fly out of the window when you face a skilled fighter that is trying to hurt you. The fighters know exactly what they…
> Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was born in the favelas
The article paints a very different picture, an upper-class family dynasty developing the martial art.
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#14What a fantastically designed and executed site! I love the attention to detail all the way across the responsive sizes. Great work.
I was thinking about the reasons this article is HN's first page.
When the article is not about technology or startups, is it because the site is well executed or because the subject is interesting? Probably both.
I would like to point another reason: the Gracie jiu-jitsu empire is an example of well executed and successful start up.
Their marketing techniques are remarkable. When one of the Gracie brothers opened his school in my city, he offered a considerable quantity of money to any local fighter that won him. Then, he beat the first guy that accepted pretty bad, not serious injured but it was not nice. Result: no more challenges, brand exposure, successful marketing.
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#15 > Rickson ... Tokyo Dome on May 26, 2000 ... Funaki
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#16Fascinating history. It's strange to see what the various jujitsu-descended arts choose as their comfort level with injury. The traditional jujitsu ryu had lots of maming / killing techniques, which have been taken out and readded depending on the art: Judo focused on making a very safe art that could be applied full-intensity in a sporting context. Aikido focussed on making a purely defensive art. Then Gracie jujits…
Not interested in the discussion, but just to correct:
"-from the article, broken eye sockets and arms aren't enough to call a fight. "
That's not true. When a referee sees a serious injury, they will stop the fight. Of course the web is full with clips of fights with lots of blood and stories of winning fights with broken bones, but that's selection bias - nobody talks about those hundreds of thousands of fights where neither participant has more than a few bruises, if that.
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#17Fascinating history. It's strange to see what the various jujitsu-descended arts choose as their comfort level with injury. The traditional jujitsu ryu had lots of maming / killing techniques, which have been taken out and readded depending on the art: Judo focused on making a very safe art that could be applied full-intensity in a sporting context. Aikido focussed on making a purely defensive art. Then Gracie jujits…
> broken eye sockets and arms aren't enough to call a fight
There's MMA, and then there's no-holds-barred (or vale tudo, literally "anything goes").
MMA in the western world today is an organized sport, with rules to protect the fighters, and has little to do with how the Gracies used to fight in Brazil. Yes, you can still find nhb events, and you can still find MMA events that are freakshows, but events like UFC, Cage Warriors, Bellator, etc. are very well organized, and fighter safety is important.
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cagefighting came into existence as a way to test the efficacy of traditional martial arts. So much of what is taught is complete rubbish ("lethal techniques" that only ever practised against compliant opponents, etc.). All the beautiful movements and choreographed dancing of traditional martial arts fly out of the window when you face a skilled fighter that is trying to hurt you. The fighters know exactly what they…
> Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was born in the favelas The article paints a very different picture, an upper-class family dynasty developing the martial art.
Yes, he is mistaken. BJJ is certainly practiced in favelas, and there are people who use it to give youths something to do, as a way to keep them away from crime, drugs, etc.
See the Tererê Kids Project, for instance: http://fightland.vice.com/blog/social-change-through-jiu-jit...
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#19For some reason, these stories always leave out that UFC 1 was organized by a Gracie with pretty much the goal of showcasing Gracie JJ. UFC 2 (I think? or was it 1 already?) even had a half-time 'ceremony' where Rickson gave Helio a 'lifetime award' of some sort - while booed by the audience; and rightfully - that was clear self-promotion and put a shadow over the objectiveness of the whole event. In that light, the line-up for the first couple of UFC's is rather suspect. Kevin Rosier? Who came back from retirement especially for it? All of them except Ken Shamrock being strikers? Objectively speaking, inviting some Pancrase people (again, besides Ken Shamrock) would have made more sense. Of course it was framed as 'style vs style', but still...
Of course Gracie JJ is very effective, but the truth is that early-days UFC was a marketing scheme for the Gracies to export their JJ. It took very little time for what was promoted as 'the perfected style, honed over 60 years' to become just one aspect of a well-rounded fighter's skills. Look at the training DVD's Carlos and Rickson made in the mid-1990's - they were laughable just 5 years later.
Not sure I'm working towards one overarching point here; maybe it's that the Gracie's real legacy is just as much in marketing as it is fighting.
Re: The Gracie jiu-jitsu story
#20Fascinating history. It's strange to see what the various jujitsu-descended arts choose as their comfort level with injury. The traditional jujitsu ryu had lots of maming / killing techniques, which have been taken out and readded depending on the art: Judo focused on making a very safe art that could be applied full-intensity in a sporting context. Aikido focussed on making a purely defensive art. Then Gracie jujits…
I will be the sole responder who agrees with you that promotions like the UFC cross the line in terms of acceptable injury to fighters.
Most professional MMA fighters with a few years in have severe debilitating injuries. I am not talking about a bad knee of slipped disc, I am talking about severe chronic pain and brain damage, something that is the inevitable result of the kind of punishment they deal with. Just look at someone like George Saint-Pierre who suddenly forgets what he has been doing for the last six hours.
It doesn't matter if fighters participate of their own free will, I could probably go into the slums right now and get two people to fight to the death over a $50 bill. There's a reason we have laws to prevent exploitation and don't just leave it to people's "free will".
I very much like MMA as a sport, but I wish there was a way to protect the fighters better. Headgear? Who can honestly say that they enjoy a fight where the fighters are bathed in each other's blood, not to mention the health implications (even the ref wears gloves).