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Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

johndcook.com

41–50 of 133 posts

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#41
post #16

The author has not ever worked with the truly 10x more productive programmers. Most people do not get the chance to work with these programmers. They do get paid in proportion to their productivity. There are so many horrible programmers that you can be mediocre and be 10x more productive than the guy next to you. Thus you think you're in the 10x crew. But you really aren't. It's not because you're really that good.…

How did he get that good?

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#42
post #38

what kind of salaried professionals do get paid based on productivity?

The only people who get paid according to their productivity are the ones that own their own business, individually or collectively (in a partnership). Everyone else is paid "market rate" which is the lowest rate someone else is willing to accept to do the same job, and is able to deliver. These are completely different compensation models.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#43
post #2

My proudest moments as a programmer are those where I manage to develop some functionality in a week or two that took another team of programmers months or years to do by using a novel approach or stitching together preexisting code. Every line of code I write is another I will have to maintain. Sooner or later it will be a burden. For this reason, I strive to write as few as possible. The programmers I respect most…

I feel best when I'm deleting other's code, and accomplishing the same thing with much less code.

100% agree with this, less code = less maintenance. Very few people truly understand this and why it's important.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#44
post #2

My proudest moments as a programmer are those where I manage to develop some functionality in a week or two that took another team of programmers months or years to do by using a novel approach or stitching together preexisting code. Every line of code I write is another I will have to maintain. Sooner or later it will be a burden. For this reason, I strive to write as few as possible. The programmers I respect most…

(Though with the obvious caveat that code golf for the sake of code golf is not a good idea either. Readability is important, and sometimes, writing the naive code that is easy to explain and understand is better than the slightly more performant code)

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#45

Show me how to measure productivity and I'll find a way for the 10x more productive programmer to earn 10x the compensation. I agree with the OP that the problem here is that it is not easy to measure productivity. http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-02-1...

Start your own business (even if only a consultancy) and look at your bank account each day. That's the raw, true measure of productivity.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#46
post #22

Being super-productive isn't always wise for the black belt coder. In the traditional world of commercial programming if you solve the problem in a couple of hours and then just spend the rest of the day fooling around, reading scholarpedia or working on your own pet projects managers often don't look upon this kind of behavior favourably - they think you're not being productive, when in fact the opposite is the case…

I'd disagree with your description of "super-productive", that sounds like normal-productive with time to fool around. Do something productive with the extra time (either more coding or, better, something else business related like running the finished app past someone who might have to use it) and there might be a chance of hitting "super-productive". (fast + time wasted = normal speed)

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#47
post #45

Show me how to measure productivity and I'll find a way for the 10x more productive programmer to earn 10x the compensation. I agree with the OP that the problem here is that it is not easy to measure productivity. http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-02-1...

Start your own business (even if only a consultancy) and look at your bank account each day. That's the raw, true measure of productivity.

That is roughly equivalent to saying that the true measure of an employee's productivity is their salary. What are you measuring?

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#48
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never meaningfully demonstrated? Have you tried to verify the claim? Go read Peopleware . You will find described very carefully set up coding comparisons that routinely found a factor of 10 productivity difference between different experienced programmers on the same task, and also a discussion of what organizational factors lead to those productivity differences. There is other research on the topic as well. For in…

Well, I just googled the peopleware citation and it seems the study backing this often repeated claim is from the 1960s and people have plenty of questions about its methodology. I'll easily buy 2X or 3X productivity difference. I'm not buying these casually tossed off claims about 10X or 30X productivity differences without the supporting research discussed in detail front and center. Unacknowledged differences of t…

If you view computer programmers as mental ditch diggers, then the idea that one could be so much more productive than another seems crazy. But when you see it as a creative endeavor, it's completely rational that some could be orders of magnitude more productive, even infinitely so.

For example, when you have a hard problem (like a networked 3d game with physics) that is beyond the abilities of a developer A (he can't solve the problems at hand, no matter how much time given), but not developer B (a creative thinker who can solve the problems quickly), then I think you can literally say Dev B is infinitely better than dev A for those hard problems. Because it's going to take you infinitely many developers A's randomly poking at their keyboard to solve the problems. But dev B will solve them in a reason amount of time.

Now dev B isn't infinitely smarter, but for certain tasks, he's infinitely more productive. The point is the productivity differences are highly context dependent, and the greater the creative and cognitive load of the tasks, the the greater the measurable productivity differences between the highest and the average developers.

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#49
post #41
post #16

The author has not ever worked with the truly 10x more productive programmers. Most people do not get the chance to work with these programmers. They do get paid in proportion to their productivity. There are so many horrible programmers that you can be mediocre and be 10x more productive than the guy next to you. Thus you think you're in the 10x crew. But you really aren't. It's not because you're really that good.…

How did he get that good?

One guess: practice?

Re: Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity

#50
post #15

Show me how to measure productivity and I'll find a way for the 10x more productive programmer to earn 10x the compensation. I agree with the OP that the problem here is that it is not easy to measure productivity. http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-02-1...

It's worse than that. There is a standard way of assesing programmers productivity and is the worst it could be: kLOC's.

Actually, I've always seen kLOC as a divisor: defects/kLOC, branches/kLOC, etc. Even metrics like functions/kLOC are useful, if you believe in small functions.
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