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Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

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Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#81

Post by nostrebored »

eli wrote: post #63
scythe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, it absolutely is always unethical. [...] Nothing is as black and white as you are claiming it to be. The irony thickens. Let me rephrase you: "Who are you, or anyone else, to evaluate 'abuse' in a relationship..." -- the answer is "anyone who knows how to count". While there are exceptions to every rule, the majority of cases fall into rather ordinary examples. Not everyone is special. Of course, indiscriminate…

Nobody asked you to intervene in their marriage, investigate their spouse, or enforce any laws -- adultery isn't even a crime in many places. You do not get to impose your morals on others. A stranger cheating on another stranger has nothing to do with you.

Clearly from the response we're seeing from society outside of this tech bubble where your privacy must be protected at all times otherwise doom ensues, people want to know when their spouse is cheating on them. You make an assumption that quite frankly ignores reality in favor of a weird moral relativism where any sort of judgment is bad.

Odds are that people don't want their spouse cheating on them.

Someone stealing from someone else doesn't have an affect on me either, but I would operate under the default assumptions that 1) they want their things 2) they would want to be notified if someone wanted to steal their things 3) they would want to be notified if someone actually stole their things

And guess what? People acting in this way has the prosocial implication of teaching people that stealing is bad, and gives me the assurance that if someone is trying to steal from me that people will let me know!

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#82

Post by balabaster »

x5n1 wrote: post #40
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue the opposite. The AM hack hasn't helped at all, since enough people view it as a just retribution due to it being about a pet moral value that is held dear, namely marital fidelity. And to others, it's all a big joke. The cheating cheaters (who likely never got the opportunity to cheat) have been named and shamed, and because of those asserting that it's acceptable to do this if it strokes their personal mo…

The future is a future where no semblance of privacy exists. In the year 3000: "Truth about the ugliness of the human race will finally be revealed when every single detail about anyone's life is public knowledge available to all."

and only at this point will everyone realize we're all hypocrites, liars and cheats that will all do whatever we can get away with when we need to or it serves our purpose. We'll all have to acknowledge that life isn't as black and white as we like to pretend but is almost entirely some blurry shade of grey that only resembles our own specific set of beliefs in the most narrow of circumstances... and that any and all human behaviour is totally normal and would most likely be considered completely fucked up when applied through your own set of ideals.

We're all capable of fucking up, making shitty decisions, painting ourselves into corners, getting depressed, thinking emotionally instead of objectively/logically. That is the peril of the human condition. I don't think it's fair for any one of us to pass judgment on others actions except when it comes to the physical safety of the community.

So what, one group of people holds marital fidelity dear and think that any action that compromises this view is worthy of exposé. Another group doesn't believe in monogamy or lies about it... largely because to disagree with it ostracizes you from the community - makes you an outsider. Forget innocent parties that are hurt by this - collateral damage, a necessary evil to expose the cheaters. Can you even hear yourselves? Who cares? People lie, cheat and steal all the time. Politicians do it, spies do it, FBI, CIA, NSA, the police, hell, even Presidents do it if it serves their objective. Think about that. When are we going to wake up and realize that this is normal human behaviour - regardless of whether you're happy about that or accept it or not, this is the case.

I agree with those who say leave this behind closed doors. If marriages fall to pieces because of this, that is between them. But to publically name and shame people because their [non-criminal and not-concerning-you] actions don't jive with your morals [Perhaps politicians would be an exception to my perspective on this] is inexcusable. Not many are going to die because someone cheats on their spouse - even if they're caught. But leaking a database of this nature has real repercussions that could cause people death or persecution for something that should only between them and their partner and was none of anyone else's business.

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#83

Post by shitsandwich »

graycat wrote: post #59
smtddr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://digg.com/2015/ashley-madison-hack Not a complete answer, but: "MOTHERBOARD: How did you hack Avid Life Media? Was it hard? The Impact Team: We worked hard to make fully undetectable attack, then got in and found nothing to bypass. MOTHERBOARD: What was their security like? The Impact Team: Bad. Nobody was watching. No security. Only thing was segmented network. You could use Pass1234 from the internet to VPN t…

Wow! It's easy to make jokes, but actually this is serious -- a lot of people are going to be hurt, and so far already two have died. Sounds like AM's computing was all f__ked up! In US Army terminology, FUBAR. Or SNAFU. Gads. Wonder how AM paid, maybe I should say, compensated , their server farm system administration staff? Their server farm security was wide open ? Should the users have expected something else?

it's an internet dating site, did you really expect more?

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#84

Post by Zigurd »

chrischen wrote: post #48
sbarre wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it absolutely is always unethical. Who are you, or anyone else, to question or evaluate "commitment" in a relationship that you have no part of, and know nothing about? Or to force someone's personal private life out in the open where it will be used to judge them without context? Nothing is as black and white as you are claiming it to be.

Privacy isn't a natural right, just like lying to someone via marriage isn't universally considered unethical. Your right to privacy isn't naturally guaranteed, and is only granted by some mutually agreed upon rules in the form of privacy laws. But if I know some fact about you, what gives you any right to say I can't reveal that information? Wouldn't you be limiting my speech? If you argue that lying in marriage is…

One could argue privacy is a more natural right than, for example, property rights since strong encryption can give you absolute privacy, even against the state.

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#85

Post by Eric_WVGG »

smtddr wrote: post #2

I don't condone this hack, but morals/ethics aside for a moment: The one positive thing this hack has done is really give serious ammo to the battle for online privacy, because the demographic hit by this hack is the most politically & economically powerful demographic in the world....

If anyone here is a science fiction fan (seems unlikely right?), there's a great comic called The Private Eye which takes place in a society which experienced a fallout from an event not unlike this (though on an even larger scale).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Private_Eye

http://panelsyndicate.com, "pay what you like"

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#86

Post by dopamean »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #22
philangist wrote: post #14

> They said Avid Life employees first learned about the breach on July 12 (seven days before my initial story) when they came into work, turned on their computers and saw a threatening message from the Impact Team accompanied by the anthem “Thunderstruck” by Australian rock band AC/DC playing in the background. This reads like a scene straight out of Hackers or some other campy tech movie. Life imitates art.

It's art imitating life. Old school warez, demoscene and hacker groups have always had a very "campy" countercultural aesthetic to them. Hackers the film doesn't hold a candle to the real-life cDc. These types of groups are a dying breed, though.

cDc == cult of the dead cow? I haven't seen them referenced in ages. Probably since my own arrest actually.

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#87

Post by nostrebored »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #75
nostrebored wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having morals also means speaking out about things when it is your concern. 37 Million (of course potentially non-unique) accounts on a website advertised with the express intent of cheating on your spouse with nobody knowing is fucked up. It's a sleazy website run by sleazy people with sleazy business practices, used by people who are trying to do something which their spouse VERY LIKELY disagrees with. Of course th…

Raw numbers aren't of much use here. You need to also gauge intent and opportunity, which is much harder, and at least in the case of opportunity, there was virtually none. You can't do that, so just stay the hell out. "An epidemic of cheating over the internet". My God, do you think adultery was invented recently? This is a classic fallacy of blaming the mere institutions as opposed to the root cause.

The intent when you register on a website designed for cheating on your spouse seems pretty clear to me. If you found your spouse registering for AM would you assume that it was just to see if they had a sleek UI?

Hook-up culture has always existed as well, but let's not pretend that Tinder hasn't changed the pace/availability of hooking up. In the same light, let's not pretend that the anonymity of the internet hasn't facilitated people comitting adultery.

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#88

Post by tedunangst »

humanrebar wrote: post #68
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then that's a breach of contract between two private parties which is of absolutely no relevance to outside observers. It is the married couple's prerogative to undergo court procedure if they so desire. Being on AM wouldn't solely have been about breaking commitment. From what I recall, it became an inadvertent hub for gay dating due to its extraordinary gender/sex imbalance. AM's entire business practice was about…

> Then that's a breach of contract between two private parties which is of absolutely no relevance to outside observers. That's one way to look at things. I happen to have a different philosophy about marriage, that it actually does affect other people, and since you're so understanding, I'm sure you'll grant that my philosophy is equally valid.

Wasn't there some other difference of opinion regarding the philosophy of marriage recently?

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#89

Post by vezzy-fnord »

nostrebored wrote: post #81
eli wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody asked you to intervene in their marriage, investigate their spouse, or enforce any laws -- adultery isn't even a crime in many places. You do not get to impose your morals on others. A stranger cheating on another stranger has nothing to do with you.

Clearly from the response we're seeing from society outside of this tech bubble where your privacy must be protected at all times otherwise doom ensues, people want to know when their spouse is cheating on them. You make an assumption that quite frankly ignores reality in favor of a weird moral relativism where any sort of judgment is bad. Odds are that people don't want their spouse cheating on them. Someone stealin…

Again, you have no way of gauging intent. An example the poster above gave is a really great one. A couple having a consensual S/M relationship that involves controlled pain, possibly leaving visible marks. Your method would be to immediately rat them out to the authorities. Congratulations, you just ruined a happy couple's relationship because you can't see past your own thin worldview, and never bothered to think before you act.

Re: Who Hacked Ashley Madison?

#90

Post by nostrebored »

ori_b wrote: post #78
nostrebored wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the lynch mobs? For the vast majority of these people, they're being called assholes because they were being assholes. I'm okay with that. The same "not sticking our noses into other people's relationships" was the root of the Family Values crowd in the 80's saying that domestic violence is a family issue, incest is a family issue, etc. Where do you draw the line at sticking your nose into other people's re…

> And if a ton of these people are non-monogamous, then perhaps we as a society should have a discussion about how our values are shifting and what new families look like Why should we have that discussion? If my spouse was cheating, I'd want to have that discussion in private , without gawkers, and without social pressure from the uninvolved.

If you had the option of knowing that your spouse was cheating via dox, or not knowing at all which would you choose?

I would still contend that you do get to have the discussions surrounding all of this in private, if you choose, or in public amidst people who are going through the same thing that you are through discussions like these, the legal system, etc.

What about the scores of people to whom cheating is a dealbreaker, who now have the means of divorcing their cheating spouses? What is the net outcome of the situation?

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