This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006) • Hacker News Board

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#41

Post by Oletros » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

vermontdevil wrote: post #29

ctdonath wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not a lot of room" in this case is basically zero. FYI to those unfamiliar with Aldi: their (grocery) stores are fairly small, run in a seriously minimalistic manner. Products are usually presented either on their shipping palettes, and/or still in volume cases - customer does some of the unpacking. Most products are "made for Aldi" or otherwise sourced from bottom-price manufacturers. Variety is nearly nonexistent.…

Don't forget $0.25 deposit for shopping cart and bags are extra.

> Don't forget $0.25 deposit for shopping cart

Here in Spain, almost all of the shopping carts from every chain works with deposit, the coins accepted are 50 cents, 1 euro, 2 euro

And almost no chain gives you free bags

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#42

Post by zer00eyz » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

kordless wrote: post #23

> The company also scrapped the staff warm-up sessions scheduled at the start of every day, on the grounds that German employees found them ridiculous. Ah, Germans. Gotta love the directness of the culture. Keeps things real.

As an american I find this kind of thing "ridiculous" as well. I think a lot of folks share that sentiment. The question is why are we still doing it.

I also have to ask what they entail at walmart? Ya for no heath insurance, Ya for working but having to be on food stamps, Ya for not enough hours to support my family?

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#43

Post by Zigurd » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #21

_delirium wrote: post #2

While I wouldn't completely discount cultural and business-environment differences, this is probably the most relevant part, > Another fatal flaw was that Germany's retail market is already saturated with discounters such as Aldi and Lidl, meaning that any new arrival inevitably finds itself in the midst of a cutthroat price war. Walmart's model is to do high volume at low margins with a highly optimized supply chain…

"Not a lot of room" in this case is basically zero. FYI to those unfamiliar with Aldi: their (grocery) stores are fairly small, run in a seriously minimalistic manner. Products are usually presented either on their shipping palettes, and/or still in volume cases - customer does some of the unpacking. Most products are "made for Aldi" or otherwise sourced from bottom-price manufacturers. Variety is nearly nonexistent.…

WIthin a short drive from me there's a Wal Mart, with a grocery section, and an Aldi, right next to each other. I tried the Aldi out of curiosity. I don't know if Aldi screwed up their format for America, but it was baffling to shop there. Heavy on the canned food. Confusing layout. Etc. Trader Joe's gets the "limited selection" thing much much better. Wal Mart caters to ethnic shoppers better. I don't think it works in America.

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#44

Post by mullen » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #8

amyjess wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone can out-Walmart Walmart, it's Aldi. When Aldi came to Dallas a few years ago (I'd like to say 2010-2011ish), they started a price war over milk that resulted in milk prices in Dallas plummeting to 1960 levels. Edit: Source: http://www.wfaa.com/story/money/consumer/2014/08/10/13621020...

I do wonder what the effect of this is on dairy farmers.

They sell more milk at a lower price, so I believe it works out for them.

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#45

Post by Oletros » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

kordless wrote: post #23

> The company also scrapped the staff warm-up sessions scheduled at the start of every day, on the grounds that German employees found them ridiculous. Ah, Germans. Gotta love the directness of the culture. Keeps things real.

> Ah, Germans. Gotta love the directness of the culture.

I don't know any Spanish, Portuguese, French or Italian that doesn't find that ridiculous

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#46

Post by woodpanel » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 4:59 PM UTC

kordless wrote: post #23

> The company also scrapped the staff warm-up sessions scheduled at the start of every day, on the grounds that German employees found them ridiculous. Ah, Germans. Gotta love the directness of the culture. Keeps things real.

When Walmart came to Germany I've actually kinda hoped, they would succeed with that warm-up thing. But as most (if not all) stores were just bought up from other German chains - their employees were bought with those stores and remained as unmotivated, bored and sometimes aggressive as they were before :-)

When you write about "the directness of the culture" I find it telling, that Wal-Mart sees its methods as "people-centered" while the competitor's German CEO sees them as "all about budgets, not customers"

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#47

Post by Someone » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #21

_delirium wrote: post #2

While I wouldn't completely discount cultural and business-environment differences, this is probably the most relevant part, > Another fatal flaw was that Germany's retail market is already saturated with discounters such as Aldi and Lidl, meaning that any new arrival inevitably finds itself in the midst of a cutthroat price war. Walmart's model is to do high volume at low margins with a highly optimized supply chain…

"Not a lot of room" in this case is basically zero. FYI to those unfamiliar with Aldi: their (grocery) stores are fairly small, run in a seriously minimalistic manner. Products are usually presented either on their shipping palettes, and/or still in volume cases - customer does some of the unpacking. Most products are "made for Aldi" or otherwise sourced from bottom-price manufacturers. Variety is nearly nonexistent.…

Also (https://customerservice.aldi.co.uk/faq):

Q: "Why is my local Aldi store not listed in the phonebook?"

A: Because phones cost money for subscriptions, and store personnel that picks up the phone doesn't bring in money.

No, that's not what their FAQ says, but generally believed to be true. Shops also don't have toilets for customers, and I remember a story about a shop that didn't have one for its personnel, either, but that may have been an urban legend.

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#48

Post by cygnus_a » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

There were a lot cultural misses in Walmart. For instance, nobody bags your groceries in Germany. When you're not expecting it, it's fucking weird to have some employee come up and grab your food.

Also, Germany has places like Kaufland and Rewe (in addition to Aldi) that have certain items much cheaper than Walmart. I found that milk, rice, bread and cheese were all cheaper there than in the US... and better quality for some reason too.

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#49

Post by usrusr » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #2

While I wouldn't completely discount cultural and business-environment differences, this is probably the most relevant part, > Another fatal flaw was that Germany's retail market is already saturated with discounters such as Aldi and Lidl, meaning that any new arrival inevitably finds itself in the midst of a cutthroat price war. Walmart's model is to do high volume at low margins with a highly optimized supply chain…

As a german, don't even know enough about Walmart to tell if they are in the same game or not. There are two mutually exclusive ways of doing cheap: you either take pride in being cheap our you try to hide it in everything but the price tag, aping pricier retailers in all other aspects (something Aldi or Lidl would never do, minimalistic presentation is the core of their brand identity).

The pretend-premium version of cheap simply would not work in Germany, because kills trust in the value of the actual products sold. Over decades, the (maybe at most semi-true) idea that products bought at Aldi or Lidl will provide high value despite their low price because all the saving comes only from cheap presentation has taken deep roots in the public consciousness. And this is where cultural differences really put Walmart in a pinch: even if they are firmly in the proud-cheap camp (which neither I not the general public would know), transplanting American service ideas like excessive greeting or the whole bag-packing thing (even just getting a bag for free is considered borderline wasteful) would give the exact opposite impression. Premium presentation, that combines with cheaply sourced goods into a very toxic "faux-quality" image.

Re: This Is Not America: Why Wal-Mart Left Germany (2006)

#50

Post by Someone » Wed, Aug 26, 2015, 5:06 PM UTC

vermontdevil wrote: post #29

ctdonath wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not a lot of room" in this case is basically zero. FYI to those unfamiliar with Aldi: their (grocery) stores are fairly small, run in a seriously minimalistic manner. Products are usually presented either on their shipping palettes, and/or still in volume cases - customer does some of the unpacking. Most products are "made for Aldi" or otherwise sourced from bottom-price manufacturers. Variety is nearly nonexistent.…

Don't forget $0.25 deposit for shopping cart and bags are extra.

Many countries or cities have policies that make giving away plastic bags expensive or even against the law (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_pla..., http://www.eupackaginglaw.com/packaging-and-recycling/free-p...)