My lazy American students • Hacker News Board

Re: My lazy American students

#51

Post by nandemo » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 6:36 AM UTC

lmkg wrote: post #6

ighost wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if the validity of your visa hinges on passing all of your classes, you will do what it takes to pass those classes, language barrier or no.

More to the point, the only ones who got the visa in the first place are the ones who already were top performers.

I agree that foreign students are above the average level of American students, generally speaking. But in this particular case? I had never heard of Babson College, and I'm pretty sure top students in any of the mentioned countries wouldn't choose Babson.

Re: My lazy American students

#52

Post by robak » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 6:43 AM UTC

zck wrote: post #2

This seems partially explained by selection bias -- the slackers from "India, China, and Latin America" don't come to America for college at the same rates as American slackers do. However, this doesn't explain the actual statistics she gives.

If someone's really good they tend to stay at home and not emmigrate to the US. Students who are good but not excellent may emmigrate. The same is true with jobs. Countries usually export their poor and dumb.

Re: My lazy American students

#53

Post by est » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 6:43 AM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #19

zck wrote: post #2

This seems partially explained by selection bias -- the slackers from "India, China, and Latin America" don't come to America for college at the same rates as American slackers do. However, this doesn't explain the actual statistics she gives.

I grew up in Taiwan, so I think I can shed some light on this. IMHO "the average" Taiwanese student will work harder than the average American student, but not by a supremely gross margin as this article would imply. The bottom-barrel students never end up in American colleges, after all. The chief difference is cultural - in Asia intellectualism is celebrated and demanded. Parents don't push their kids to football,…

Another fact you forgot to mention is probably asceticism in east-asian culture. This has some serious damage to social skills, too.

Re: My lazy American students

#54

Post by Enlightenment » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 6:44 AM UTC

The american students are too busy texting to have time to do homework!

Re: My lazy American students

#55

Post by endtime » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 7:00 AM UTC

Counterpoint: In my experience as a CS TA, international students are far more likely to cheat on problem sets than American students.

Re: My lazy American students

#56

Post by Xavi » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 9:53 AM UTC

endtime wrote: post #55

Counterpoint: In my experience as a CS TA, international students are far more likely to cheat on problem sets than American students.

I've heard similar stories form friends of mine who were also CS TAs.

Re: My lazy American students

#57

Post by yardie » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 10:02 AM UTC

nandemo wrote: post #51

lmkg wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More to the point, the only ones who got the visa in the first place are the ones who already were top performers.

I agree that foreign students are above the average level of American students, generally speaking. But in this particular case? I had never heard of Babson College, and I'm pretty sure top students in any of the mentioned countries wouldn't choose Babson.

You probably never heard of them because they didn't go to your area to recruit. When I was looking at schools recruiters were coming to the school practically everyday. Some were bundled up in the same day.

And you never know why a student chooses a college until you ask. They might be offering something in their major. They may know an alumni who can get them a spot (with the proper grades of course), or they might offer more scholarship money. If you're family income is $200 a month are you really going to turn down a free education?

Re: My lazy American students

#58

Post by yardie » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 10:15 AM UTC

endtime wrote: post #55

Counterpoint: In my experience as a CS TA, international students are far more likely to cheat on problem sets than American students.

As an American student I've observed or heard of both international and local students cheating. It really pissed me off when students would come to exams with psychiatrists' notes about a sudden onset of ADHD. Or abuse the sympathy of the teacher to get more time. Crib sheets only occurred in lower level classes where it's hard to observe. At the higher levels it becomes obvious who knows what.

Re: My lazy American students

#59

Post by dinkumthinkum » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 11:30 AM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #27

This article was entirely alien to me. Why should I care about the work of people who don't even care about it themselves? Then I thought I'd recast the situation into a more familiar setting. Apologies to OP. Make sure you read her version first. Does my version seem any stranger to you? It was the kind of pitch I hate. "I’ll do better," my software vendor told me, leaning forward in his chair. "I know I’ve gotten b…

I'm not sure what your point is.

Re: My lazy American students

#60

Post by ivenkys » Wed, Dec 23, 2009, 11:35 AM UTC

Too many generalisations and over-simplification. A single swallow does not make a spring.

As an aside, this concept of Asian Intellectualism to me has always sounded hollow. My experience has been that Asian students especially Indian students tend to favour learning-by-rote over critical thinking which requires large amounts of time spent memorising things versus understanding them. The school and university exams in India tend to emphasise that as well.