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A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#31

Post by ericd »

coldtea wrote: post #13
ilaksh wrote: post #4

I think its important for Hacker News readers to read this because techno-communism is becoming a very serious force in western politics. It needs to be tempered with a historical context. The problem we should focus on is over-centralization, which comes easily out of a competitive OR cooperative society. Yes to holistic measurements, efficiency and equality. But do that on a meta, protocol level that allows for div…

> think its important for Hacker News readers to read this because techno-communism is becoming a very serious force in western politics. It needs to be tempered with a historical context. Tempered why? The worst thing he could say about Poland was a corrupt police. Constrast with the hundrends of innocent police killings in the US, or the hundrens of thousands incarcerated for BS charges (like drug pocession or thre…

I think you're forgetting the other bad things he mentioned - having to wait in line all day for the chance to get some bread, for example.

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#32

Post by obrero »

V-2 wrote: post #17
coldtea wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> think its important for Hacker News readers to read this because techno-communism is becoming a very serious force in western politics. It needs to be tempered with a historical context. Tempered why? The worst thing he could say about Poland was a corrupt police. Constrast with the hundrends of innocent police killings in the US, or the hundrens of thousands incarcerated for BS charges (like drug pocession or thre…

> The worst thing he could say about Poland was a corrupt police. It hardly means that this is the worst thing that could be said about Soviet-controlled Poland > Constrast with the hundrends of innocent police killings in the US US police is notorious for its brutality, but are these killings ordered by top officials in chain of command? If factory workers go on a strike in the US, are police troops sent in to "shoo…

> US police is notorious for its brutality, but are these killings ordered by top officials in chain of command?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Fred_Hampton

> If factory workers go on a strike in the US, are police troops sent in to "shoot to kill" them? They did in Poland 30 years ago, eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacification_of_Wujek

Oh god yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockton_cannery_strike_of_193... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_sanitation_stri... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-Lite_strike#The_.22Battle... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Steel_strike

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#33

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #13
ilaksh wrote: post #4

I think its important for Hacker News readers to read this because techno-communism is becoming a very serious force in western politics. It needs to be tempered with a historical context. The problem we should focus on is over-centralization, which comes easily out of a competitive OR cooperative society. Yes to holistic measurements, efficiency and equality. But do that on a meta, protocol level that allows for div…

> think its important for Hacker News readers to read this because techno-communism is becoming a very serious force in western politics. It needs to be tempered with a historical context. Tempered why? The worst thing he could say about Poland was a corrupt police. Constrast with the hundrends of innocent police killings in the US, or the hundrens of thousands incarcerated for BS charges (like drug pocession or thre…

[deleted]

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#34

Post by ido »

x0054 wrote: post #23
coldtea wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> think its important for Hacker News readers to read this because techno-communism is becoming a very serious force in western politics. It needs to be tempered with a historical context. Tempered why? The worst thing he could say about Poland was a corrupt police. Constrast with the hundrends of innocent police killings in the US, or the hundrens of thousands incarcerated for BS charges (like drug pocession or thre…

Come on! Did you live through Soviet style communism? Please don't glorify that BS unless you have. A party functionary would be entitled to free servants to help them move, clean there garden, do all kinds of physical labor for them. Those servants were called enlisted soldiers. A party functionary would be entitled to a yearly, 3 month vacation on the black sea, where they would live, in a palace by the sea. And wh…

Hate to nitpick but you mean "dad". "Dead" means not-alive.

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#35

Post by SimpleMinds »

dman wrote: post #18
goodcanadian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're on our fourth country, and we've traveled to many more. I think what you learn is that there are many ways to do different things. Other cultures get some things very right that your home culture gets wrong. Your home culture gets some things right that other cultures get wrong. But overall, the main takeaway is that it broadens your view of the world and it opens your eyes to possibilities that you would not o…

Could you elaborate on some positive differences where witnessing a different culture improved your outlook towards life in a meaningful way?

I would like to add here a bit if I can.

I'm from Western country and I was/am living in Eastern culture (China)

I'm still learning about Chinese concepts of family and "filial piety". Thanks to long (and sometimes hot) discussions with gf, I feel now that my behaviour towards family and close friends have changed in better way - I understand/feel without thinking that there are situations where my concept of being adult and self sustainable person with own opinions should give way to another person even if I'm right (and they are wrong) because they are elders in the conversation. I understand in better way that there are social constructs that even if not best, they keep people close to you (that's important part) in greater mood than if you constantly try to set your opinions on them.

Sometimes you don't want to tell people close to you that your tooth hurst so they are not worried.

Even though there's a lot of wrong with social behaviours in China on a greater scale (look up problems with "good Samaritans" for simplest examples), the family scale I feel is much better and greater than what I learned/grow up with in West. I feel that if we could learn from Chinese concepts of family, we would be much better in West.

While saying above, I have to think that it still can be coming from my raising and history and I'm still learning about historical/philosophical entires in our social life, so I hope I didn't offend anyone with above.

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#38

Post by jacquesm »

rasz_pl wrote: post #24

The bit about getting a work permit is a little weird. At that time average monthly salary was ~$5. His Dutch parents could literally just send him lunch money, and it would be enough to for an upper class lifestyle at the time. Flower/grape/whatever picking for a month in the west was enough to finance rest of the year. It was as bad as in Greece right now, everything worth something got sold to multinationals for p…

> The bit about getting a work permit is a little weird. At that time average monthly salary was ~$5. His Dutch parents could literally just send him lunch money, and it would be enough to for an upper class lifestyle at the time.

I've never depended on anybody for my living expenses after I turned 17 and to ask my parents for money simply never even occurred to me.

Also, once you were legally employed you could drop the exchange requirement (which in terms of western money was substantial, you are looking at the $5 as the black market exchange rate, unfortunately for westerners living in Poland the exchange rate was substantially worse which meant that doing this legally would cost many 100's of $ per month).

> Flower/grape/whatever picking for a month in the west was enough to finance rest of the year.

Yes, because the money brought in from the west was exchange piecemeal on the black market.

> It was as bad as in Greece right now, everything worth something got sold to multinationals for pennies on the dollar.

The rape of Poland by the Western countries was - and is - an absolutely horrific crime. Not that anybody will ever by punished for it but it is incredibly bitter that the first contact between Eastern and Western economies led to yet another round of those people being taken advantage of. The damage from this lasts to this day. If that story interests you research 'polinvest' and several other nasty schemes that were pulled off just after the change.

> All the famous polish brands absorbed into mcdonalds/cocacolas/pepsis of the world.

And the Philipses, Volkswagens and Siemenses...

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#39

Post by [deleted] »

tinbad wrote: post #2

Growing up with my grandparents in the 80s in Moscow, I remember standing in line in front of a place literally called 'Store' for hours. Nobody knew what the line was for or what it was the store was getting in that day. Some people spend the night waiting just to be in front. After standing in line all day, finally by dusk a truck pulls up. Everybody looking in anxiety and worried about not being enough merchandise…

[deleted]

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#40

Post by dman »

SimpleMinds wrote: post #35
dman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on some positive differences where witnessing a different culture improved your outlook towards life in a meaningful way?

I would like to add here a bit if I can. I'm from Western country and I was/am living in Eastern culture (China) I'm still learning about Chinese concepts of family and "filial piety". Thanks to long (and sometimes hot) discussions with gf, I feel now that my behaviour towards family and close friends have changed in better way - I understand/feel without thinking that there are situations where my concept of being a…

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences.
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