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Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#31

Post by 67726e »

scarmig wrote: post #20
greggman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably shouldn't post this but what the heck. I quit on the spot twice when a company was dickish. Once I had a friend, previous co-worker, that would visit. He'd come into my office and we'd play games (this was a game company). This had happened about once every month or 2 for a year or so. One time I had to go to the restroom. I came back and he was gone. The new boss had escorted him out of the office. I quit…

First boss doesn't seem that bad, actually. Made a mistake, obviously, but he was new and maybe just getting his footing, and having an unaccompanied outsider inside the office is frowned upon by virtually all companies. The second manager sounds like a particularly unique combination of dickish and clueless.

Obviously everyone has a different experience, but in my experience one would expect either a heads up and/or a debriefing afterwards. Having disappearing coworkers is no good for morale.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#32

Post by MCRed »

jaimebuelta wrote: post #28
astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

The fact is that those things (small, stupid disrespectful moments) are the kind of triggers for quitting or to start looking other stuff. When I go back, the things that most angered me about managers or companies hasn't been "big stuff" (crunching time, low pay, etc...), but those kind of "stupid serious conversations" (not liking the amount of time spend for lunch, that's just "behold! I need to MANAGE because I d…

The small inconsiderations are the reality leaking out and letting you know what they think of you.

They don't respect you and they won't respect you when review time comes around or when raises and bonuses are handed out.

Thus it's not really blowing them out of proportion to react negatively to them. They're honesty leaking out.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#33

Post by aaronbrethorst »

onaplane wrote: post #21

Okay, these articles are getting really ridiculous. I just finished a Summer internship at Amazon. While it's true that there's more pressure on employees than other places I've worked, it's really not that bad. It definitely doesn't feel cutthroat, and an 80-85 hour work week is definitely not normal! The vast majority (I'd say >70%, and I think that's conservative) of people work 35-45, depending on what needs to g…

Great comment. You sound a lot like I did when I interned at another big Seattle-area company in 2002. Print this off and look at it again every year for the next 13 years. Reflect on it, and annotate the parts you agree and disagree with each year. You'll be amazed how much your perspective changes over the next decade.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#34

Post by MCRed »

pacala wrote: post #29
MCRed wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2014 I worked for a company where the whole team quit. From Summer to fall they built a team who built a product. By february all of them had quit or been fired, except for one programmer (and me who had just been hired.) Did the company learn from this? no. We built a new team, built a new product, and by february of the next year we had all quit. They are now on their third team. Nothings changed . Management co…

Where on earth do they find money to pay the wages for each wave of employees? Are their shareholders blind?

Well, they pay less money when people leave, and one of their approaches to "solve" the "problem" of people leaving is to get increasingly junior and inexperienced people.

The team now is made up mostly of people whose programming experience is a 6 week boot camp designed to take non programmers and teach them how to program... led by two people who seem to be also-rans who never learned anything after the java boom of the 1990s. Continuos integration? Why would we need that?

They aren't a startup- they are a subdivision of a much larger company, and that's the source of the problem- that larger company has no technical capability, or care, and the management is... incompetent, to say the least.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#36

Post by aaronbrethorst »

MCRed wrote: post #30
onaplane wrote: post #21

Okay, these articles are getting really ridiculous. I just finished a Summer internship at Amazon. While it's true that there's more pressure on employees than other places I've worked, it's really not that bad. It definitely doesn't feel cutthroat, and an 80-85 hour work week is definitely not normal! The vast majority (I'd say >70%, and I think that's conservative) of people work 35-45, depending on what needs to g…

Sorry, your internship is not representative. They are trying got trick you into working there. You were treated special in a number of ways. Further, AWS is isolated to some extend from the abusive nature of the company by being a separate division. A lot of what you say is right out of the amazon weltanshaung-- its cult has seeped in to some extent. You're giving us rationalizations for the abusive nature of the wo…

It'd be more appropriate to respond to this comment's assertions than downvoting it.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#37

Post by MCRed »

libber wrote: post #22

I found this interesting, feels like the most realistic account so far - http://pastebin.com/BjD84BQ3 I just feel bad for amazon people I meet, the 2 year cliff and high pressure oncall simply isn't a thing at the other tech companies. At least for me and ive worked at a few of them (plural of anicdote isn't data but still) Life seems strictly worse at amazon.

His account seems much better than what I experienced. I still think he has swallowed too much koolaide-- and this is why Amazon focuses on the young kids they can make an impression on.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#38

Post by [deleted] »

MCRed wrote: post #23

My experience at Amazon was straight up abusive. It is a hostile work environment and it should not be tolerated. If you have any self respect, do not go to work there. The only way abusive companies can learn is when their abuse is discovered and they have trouble hiring good employees. The apologists and the rationalizers and the Amazon PR machine are out in full force. this is not surprising, because the core meth…

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#39

Post by ashurbanipal »

scarmig wrote: post #20
greggman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably shouldn't post this but what the heck. I quit on the spot twice when a company was dickish. Once I had a friend, previous co-worker, that would visit. He'd come into my office and we'd play games (this was a game company). This had happened about once every month or 2 for a year or so. One time I had to go to the restroom. I came back and he was gone. The new boss had escorted him out of the office. I quit…

First boss doesn't seem that bad, actually. Made a mistake, obviously, but he was new and maybe just getting his footing, and having an unaccompanied outsider inside the office is frowned upon by virtually all companies. The second manager sounds like a particularly unique combination of dickish and clueless.

FLSA is not a joke anymore. Especially for a big company or one that has aspirations of becoming big.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#40

Post by autotune »

jaimebuelta wrote: post #28
astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

The fact is that those things (small, stupid disrespectful moments) are the kind of triggers for quitting or to start looking other stuff. When I go back, the things that most angered me about managers or companies hasn't been "big stuff" (crunching time, low pay, etc...), but those kind of "stupid serious conversations" (not liking the amount of time spend for lunch, that's just "behold! I need to MANAGE because I d…

From my perspective the job of a manager is 4 fold:

1) Manage schedules.

2) Set expectations for performing well and be motivational (optional in my case but appreciated).

3) Prevent corporate politics and bullshit from getting in the way and keep the team in the loop about potential bullshit that is bound to come our way.

4) Manage or help manage hiring/firing process and promotion process.

A manager should act as a background process that steps up only if things are very obviously wrong or you directly ask for help related to the above. If they are in the foreground without it being required than they are creating the political bullshit that results in team members becoming weary and quitting.

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