Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way • Hacker News Board

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#11

Post by greggman » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:31 PM UTC

astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

I probably shouldn't post this but what the heck.

I quit on the spot twice when a company was dickish.

Once I had a friend, previous co-worker, that would visit. He'd come into my office and we'd play games (this was a game company). This had happened about once every month or 2 for a year or so. One time I had to go to the restroom. I came back and he was gone. The new boss had escorted him out of the office. I quit on the spot. Saw that boss at a trade show years later. He apologized.

Another time a boss at a company that was flex and who and never missed a deadline decided it doesn't going to be flex anymore for the next project. I was late one day 45 minutes and he got in my face. I brought up that I'd been an hour and a half early the previous day. He didn't care. Claimed if I worked at "The Gap" I'd have been fired. It was like "this isn't the Gap, I'm not an hourly employee". Arguments escalated, I quit.

Apparently he then laid now the law for the remaining employees with strict hours and strict lunch hours and that you were not to leave the building outside those hours and threatening to doc people's pay if they were late. Of course he probably didn't realized that's probably illegal, at least in the USA. If you dock salaries employees by hours worked they become non-exempt meaning by not letting them choose their hours they are effectively hourly employees that have to be paid by the hour and paid overtime. At least in the USA. Of course IANAL but that's my reading of the law.

I'm not really happy with the way I handled things and it's a life long work in progress to not get heated but I am proud that I didn't take shit and moved on from those situations when I did.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#12

Post by elisee » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:31 PM UTC

astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

Accidentally downvoted you, sorry.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#13

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:38 PM UTC

astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#14

Post by xacaxulu » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:42 PM UTC

nickff wrote: post #3

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #2

I see a lot of comments on the Times regarding unions. We take a lot of things like weekends for granted, and many of these tech companies seem to treat them as a flexible inconvenience. I wonder if a hundred years from now we will look on the taxes to our mental health today as similarly as we imagine the truly backbreaking labor of the 19th century.

The level of stress, and the toll it takes on mental health that we experience today is very low compared to a time when productivity and income were 20x lower. Our lives have changed, and we are immensely richer than we were 100 or even 50 years ago. People have more mobility, options, and opportunity than ever before in human history. One can argue that certain policies or priorities have affected our lives for the…

This 'feels' accurate, but I don't know how worthwhile it is to say 'well it was shittier back then so...'. People commit suicide, relationships are ruined and diseases appear due to the kind of stressors described in the Amazon exposés. They're worthy of being considered today, in context, not compared to British coal workers in the past or whatever.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#15

Post by parennoob » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:43 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #2

I see a lot of comments on the Times regarding unions. We take a lot of things like weekends for granted, and many of these tech companies seem to treat them as a flexible inconvenience. I wonder if a hundred years from now we will look on the taxes to our mental health today as similarly as we imagine the truly backbreaking labor of the 19th century.

Why wait a hundred years? If we have any 60+ year olds on HN that have worked in tech all their life (I can recall of at least one person like this chiming in on discussions in the past) -- then they can probably comment on what sort of toll this takes on your life in the longer term.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#16

Post by kelukelugames » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:44 PM UTC

greggman wrote: post #11

astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

I probably shouldn't post this but what the heck. I quit on the spot twice when a company was dickish. Once I had a friend, previous co-worker, that would visit. He'd come into my office and we'd play games (this was a game company). This had happened about once every month or 2 for a year or so. One time I had to go to the restroom. I came back and he was gone. The new boss had escorted him out of the office. I quit…

Kudos to boss#1 for apologizing. I hope he mellowed out.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#17

Post by astrowilliam » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:46 PM UTC

stevewepay wrote: post #8

astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

How much do you want to bet that "someone" was actually your boss, but they didn't have enough guts to say it themselves? That sounds like a terrible place to work, good on you for leaving.

Actually, I filed a report when I left. I had a great track record until that point. My work was spotless, I think I was nice to everyone.

Within 1 week of me leaving my boss was promoted!

Not because he was good at his job, but because he was a bad manager. He was promoted to a position that didn't require him to have a team under him.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#18

Post by wyclif » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:47 PM UTC

This is just an observation, but a recurring theme in casual conversations with friends in tech is that the quality of work/life balance as an employee (as opposed to a founder) is eroding fast.

One factor that I think accelerates this is that companies that are established and clearly not startups anymore (companies with lots of employees, huge market cap, and revenue, whether they've IPO'd or not) increasingly consider themselves "startups", which often leads to them justifying these toxic work cultures, insane hours, and massive churn.

By refusing to grow up and mature as a company, and admit that this is happening, the owners of the company can have it both ways: you work for a startup when they're talking about passion, commitment, and hours, but you work for an established business when they want to turn the corporatist screws on their employees.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#19

Post by 67726e » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:48 PM UTC

greggman wrote: post #11

astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

I probably shouldn't post this but what the heck. I quit on the spot twice when a company was dickish. Once I had a friend, previous co-worker, that would visit. He'd come into my office and we'd play games (this was a game company). This had happened about once every month or 2 for a year or so. One time I had to go to the restroom. I came back and he was gone. The new boss had escorted him out of the office. I quit…

To be honest, at this point in time if you are a good software engineer you really have no need to put up with toxic bullshit at work. I left a job back in January. The type of startup that likes to prey on youthful ignorance. The kind of place that will repeatedly remind you that you are exempt from overtime but shove added unrelated duties and obligations and make you use a time clock. When I was faced with my capitulate or quit situation I didn't hesitate to quit and tell them just how shitty they treat folks. I had a new job that afternoon.

Don't be afraid to stick up for yourself. This is a golden age for developers. Learn your worth and don't ask, demand it. To do anything less is doing yourself a great disservice.

Re: Jeff Bezos and the Amazon Way

#20

Post by scarmig » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:49 PM UTC

greggman wrote: post #11

astrowilliam wrote: post #4

I've worked at a big internet company where the culture was very toxic and not a good place to work, let alone be a normal human being. Pushy, rude and underhanded people were plentiful and were willing to throw you so far under the bus at any given moment that you would never find your way back out. This became evident to me when I went on my lunch break after working there for about 4 months. Each employee was give…

I probably shouldn't post this but what the heck. I quit on the spot twice when a company was dickish. Once I had a friend, previous co-worker, that would visit. He'd come into my office and we'd play games (this was a game company). This had happened about once every month or 2 for a year or so. One time I had to go to the restroom. I came back and he was gone. The new boss had escorted him out of the office. I quit…

First boss doesn't seem that bad, actually. Made a mistake, obviously, but he was new and maybe just getting his footing, and having an unaccompanied outsider inside the office is frowned upon by virtually all companies.

The second manager sounds like a particularly unique combination of dickish and clueless.