Trucks Are Killing Us • Hacker News Board

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#161

Post by rectang » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #28

kylemathews wrote: post #2

This is why many people believe self-driving trucks will be even more significant than self-driving cars. Especially as we start to commute less as telepresence improves and more jobs can go remote.

OK, just as long as trucks aren't driven through telepresence. Drone operators in the trucking industry might challenge their military brethren in terms of innocent people killed.

If trucks were operated as drones, wouldn't that make managing hours and handing off from one driver to another much easier?

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#162

Post by Aloha » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:53 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #137

Aloha wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a former over the road truck driver who hauled truckload freight. I disagree profoundly that self driving trucks are the future, the future is multimodal transport, even now a significant proportion of long haul (greater than 3-600 miles) is already on the rail, either in the form of a container or piggyback. The issue that keeps the remaining long haul (greater than 600 miles) on the road (vs rail) is timing, wh…

Why wouldn't the trucks in your future scenario be self driving? Once a container is off the rails a self driving truck would take it to the local distribution center. It would be fantastically more efficient.

I don't think the technology will evolve fast enough to solve the problems of driving a combo-tractor trailer in an urbann environment because of the greater size of the vehicle (and greater sensor load). You'd be better off having a rail spur at the local distribution center.

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#163

Post by cs702 » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:56 PM UTC

jfhubbard wrote: post #148

I'm the CEO of SpeedGauge - a safety and performance company that uses data from 3rd party GPS trackers to monitor and coach hundreds of thousands of commercial vehicles in the US. We use standard GPS tracking data to understand and improve driver speeding behavior - clearly the cause of the crash that critically injured Tracy Morgan and killed James McNair. From our experience with fleet customers we can see that th…

Welcome to HN.

What are your thoughts on rail as an alternative to trucks?

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#164

Post by mcguire » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:57 PM UTC

copsarebastards wrote: post #58

jerrac wrote: post #39

Driving while tired can be as dangerous as driving drunk. The occasional 14hr drive isn't horrible, but if you do that several days in a row, you're going to be really tired. So limiting the hours per day a truck driver drives seems like a good idea. As does "shift" driving. Collision avoidance tech also seems like a good idea. That said, I don't think we need the government to do anything. Drivers can unionize and d…

> That said, I don't think we need the government to do anything. I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion looking at this data. > Drivers can unionize and demand better hours. Insurance companies can require collision avoidance tech be installed. Etc. Many things can happen, but they aren't happening, so...

Drivers are frequently the ones complaining about the hours-of-service regulations. They get paid by the mile but many of their working hours are non-driving, so more hours on the road is more money.

Drivers unionizing (That would be the Teamsters, right?) to demand fewer hours seems roughly as likely as programmers unionizing to demand something better than their 80-hour weeks.

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#165

Post by Aloha » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:58 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #95

Aloha wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a former over the road truck driver who hauled truckload freight. I disagree profoundly that self driving trucks are the future, the future is multimodal transport, even now a significant proportion of long haul (greater than 3-600 miles) is already on the rail, either in the form of a container or piggyback. The issue that keeps the remaining long haul (greater than 600 miles) on the road (vs rail) is timing, wh…

The issue that keeps the remaining long haul (greater than 600 miles) on the road (vs rail) is timing, when you put something on the rail, you loose a day or so at one end in loading/classifying and another in classifying/unloading. That's an interesting comment. Modern container ships and the infrastructure that supports them are surely one of the most effective logistical developments in human history, transferring…

I think any multimodal transport has an inherent lag - and I don't think its worth the effort to get the lag out - beyond that because of the inherent delays (you gotta sort the railcar onto a siding, then unload the trailer (if its a can, it needs to be unloaded and mated with a chassis), put it somewhere so it can be picked up, the coordinate to have it picked up by a tractor.)

I'd put the effort on getting shippers to accept the longer shipment times - a little less JIT inventory for example, its a change that needs to be made at all levels.

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#166

Post by douche » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:58 PM UTC

spdionis wrote: post #135

douche wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But waitstaff do a lot more than simple data entry, so that ends up being worse all around. Yeah, they do it poorly and inaccurately, with lots of latency between requests.

Depends a lot on the staff quality. The value of a qualified waiter is much more than simply taking your order.

Perhaps for high-end places where the human touch is important. But for your run of the mill, fast food and cheap chain restaurants, hiring staff is a liability, if you are forced to hire the kind of staff that is willing to work for $8/hour. I've never decided to frequent a particular establishment because their staff was better than average, but there are a lot I won't go back to because they had awful, incompetent staff. Average here means that they deliver something vaguely resembling what you asked for, within a reasonable timeframe, and they can total the order up on the cash register without over or undercharging by an order of magnitude, or crashing the entire POS system of the restaurant.

That's rarer than you might imagine...

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#167

Post by danieltillett » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:58 PM UTC

apendleton wrote: post #88

thedogeye wrote: post #25

It's rather disingenuous to compare truck crash fatalities to plane crash fatalities. Almost everything kills people more often than plane crashes.

Yes, so why is air travel so much more heavily regulated for safety than all the other things? The perception is skewed, and people just don't think about motor vehicle collisions as being a big problem, even though they kill tons of people every year (more than firearm homicides, too, for what it's worth). Pointing that out is reasonable.

Air travel used to be very dangerous. This created the demand for safety which has continued as a culture within the airline industry to the point that air travel is the safest way to travel.

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#168

Post by mcguire » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:02 PM UTC

eridius wrote: post #117

Egregore wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually talked with any truck drivers? Are you sure they want it? Most deaths are not truck drivers, but drivers of cars who enter in collisions with trucks. And truck drivers would like to make more money in shorter periods of time and not spend this time resting someplace away from home. I hope autopilots will replace truck drivers soon.

I would assume truck drivers don't want to kill people. No matter how it's done, one person accidentally killing another person tends to fuck up that first person pretty well.

Being involved in a fatal accident is very rare for an individual driver. What is being proposed would be seen as a theoretical good for overall society that paid for by the individual.

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#169

Post by jerrac » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:04 PM UTC

mortenjorck wrote: post #63

jerrac wrote: post #39

Driving while tired can be as dangerous as driving drunk. The occasional 14hr drive isn't horrible, but if you do that several days in a row, you're going to be really tired. So limiting the hours per day a truck driver drives seems like a good idea. As does "shift" driving. Collision avoidance tech also seems like a good idea. That said, I don't think we need the government to do anything. Drivers can unionize and d…

Driving while tired can be as dangerous as driving drunk. Absolutely true. [1] The problem is cultural: While we've successfully established shaming around DUI, I think there's a certain kind of deeper, Protestant-work-ethic-derived rationalization we seem to make for drowsy driving. "You're working hard, so it's all right." Perhaps the same ethical framework that was used to make DUI popularly unacceptable can be us…

The hard part is that it often seems like you "have" to drive at times. I'm a single guy living alone, so when my fridge is empty, I "have" to get food. Even when tired or sick. Sure I could use public transportation, but when you're that tired, is it even available? Or would you have the energy to use it?

Anyway, that's part of why people still drive while tired. They have to do something important, not necessarily work. So it would be hard to make it publicly unacceptable.

Re: Trucks Are Killing Us

#170

Post by jfhubbard » Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 10:08 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #163

jfhubbard wrote: post #148

I'm the CEO of SpeedGauge - a safety and performance company that uses data from 3rd party GPS trackers to monitor and coach hundreds of thousands of commercial vehicles in the US. We use standard GPS tracking data to understand and improve driver speeding behavior - clearly the cause of the crash that critically injured Tracy Morgan and killed James McNair. From our experience with fleet customers we can see that th…

Welcome to HN. What are your thoughts on rail as an alternative to trucks?

I am a strong supporter of intermodal; trucks & trains have got to work together. I think that trains are part of the solution to truck driver shortage plus they have lots of other benefits (environmental etc..).

I think that there is a great opportunity to make intermodal more efficient and to create more truck/train interface points and to make them more efficient. A lot of work to do. Opportunity for big application of capital AND software.