Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Where should the “6” key be?

ultimatehackingkeyboard.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 68 posts

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#21

Post by prodmerc »

MereInterest wrote: post #15
jwr wrote: post #4

A side comment, as it's the first time I see the "ultimate hacking keyboard": Whenever I see a keyboard with an "Fn" key, I sigh. This means that the designer of the keyboard thought he knows better which functions I need and took valuable space in the modifier row for a key which I will probably never use. Media control functions? Come on. Most keyboards that have an "Fn" key do not allow you to remap it in any way…

Even worse. Many new laptop keyboards have the media control buttons be the default behavior, and require the "Fn" key to access the F keys.

Don't forget the tiny arrow keys (also sometimes home/pgup/pgdn/end) bunched up together - what the hell were those designers smoking? :-)

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#22

Post by ueie »

Tehnix wrote: post #16
jwr wrote: post #4

A side comment, as it's the first time I see the "ultimate hacking keyboard": Whenever I see a keyboard with an "Fn" key, I sigh. This means that the designer of the keyboard thought he knows better which functions I need and took valuable space in the modifier row for a key which I will probably never use. Media control functions? Come on. Most keyboards that have an "Fn" key do not allow you to remap it in any way…

I actually use media control keys very often when playing music on my laptop, much much quicker than going into an app first. I actually like the how OS X by default uses the fn functionality, and you press fn to access f1, f2 etc.. Except for very few games, I never actually use those keys anyways. And even then I use something like Palua[0] to automatically enable/disable the fn key based on the app that is current…

You could have set up those media keyboard shortcuts yourself at the software level.

The problem with the Fn key is that it, itself, typically cannot be reassigned.

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#23

Post by mhb »

anon4 wrote: post #11

After investing in a Truly Ergonomic[0] keyboard, I personally don't want ever again to use a keyboard with asymmetrically staggered keys. Having a perfectly mirrored layout is much nicer to use. The 6 on it is on the right, if that matters. [0] That's the brand name, it's not really truly ergonomic, or at least not as designed for ergonomics as a Kinesis. Homepage/store: http://www.trulyergonomic.com

Looks interesting. Do you order one of each kind and send back all but one?

Also, why is that Windows key so accessible? That is what that diamond shaped icon is, right?

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#24

Post by vacri »

anon4 wrote: post #11

After investing in a Truly Ergonomic[0] keyboard, I personally don't want ever again to use a keyboard with asymmetrically staggered keys. Having a perfectly mirrored layout is much nicer to use. The 6 on it is on the right, if that matters. [0] That's the brand name, it's not really truly ergonomic, or at least not as designed for ergonomics as a Kinesis. Homepage/store: http://www.trulyergonomic.com

> http://www.trulyergonomic.com

I like how they advertise "100% of the keys in 60% of the space", when the majority of the space they save is the numpad... which isn't replicated in their keyboard. There's a number of odd choices with keys, probably the greatest of which is hiding 'insert' behind a function shift.

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#25

Post by lfowles »

Intermernet wrote: post #10

Thanks for putting a lot of thought into this! I've used many KBs over the years, and haven't thought about the alignment of the number row at all. As an example, I just noticed that my Surface "Typepad" KB has a very narrow tilde / back-quote key (~ and `) which biases the "6" to the left. If this weren't the case than it would be more centered, but this is then thrown by the width of the "Backspace" key. Is numeric…

> EDIT: As an aside, what width space-bar do most of you think you require? I've just been thinking about KB key-width, and the space-bar shaped elephant-in-the-room loomed it's lengthy head.

Well, mine's about a half inch teardrop shape :)

http://alphagrips.com/

I imagine it's just so wide so your thumb doesn't have to move from anywhere on the main keyboard to hit it. It is used incredibly often!

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#26

Post by mahouse »

jwr wrote: post #4

A side comment, as it's the first time I see the "ultimate hacking keyboard": Whenever I see a keyboard with an "Fn" key, I sigh. This means that the designer of the keyboard thought he knows better which functions I need and took valuable space in the modifier row for a key which I will probably never use. Media control functions? Come on. Most keyboards that have an "Fn" key do not allow you to remap it in any way…

> Whenever I see a keyboard with an "Fn" key, I sigh. This means that the designer of the keyboard thought he knows better which functions I need and took valuable space in the modifier row for a key which I will probably never use.

And what tells you they won't make this key configurable? Nothing.

> Media control functions? Come on.

Most people listen to music, you know. It's certainly not crazy to have them on every keyboard.

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#27

Post by 542458 »

ueie wrote: post #22
Tehnix wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually use media control keys very often when playing music on my laptop, much much quicker than going into an app first. I actually like the how OS X by default uses the fn functionality, and you press fn to access f1, f2 etc.. Except for very few games, I never actually use those keys anyways. And even then I use something like Palua[0] to automatically enable/disable the fn key based on the app that is current…

You could have set up those media keyboard shortcuts yourself at the software level. The problem with the Fn key is that it, itself, typically cannot be reassigned.

It is possible to remap pretty much any OS X key with the help of a utility like Karabiner.

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#28

Post by DanBC »

mahouse wrote: post #26
jwr wrote: post #4

A side comment, as it's the first time I see the "ultimate hacking keyboard": Whenever I see a keyboard with an "Fn" key, I sigh. This means that the designer of the keyboard thought he knows better which functions I need and took valuable space in the modifier row for a key which I will probably never use. Media control functions? Come on. Most keyboards that have an "Fn" key do not allow you to remap it in any way…

> Whenever I see a keyboard with an "Fn" key, I sigh. This means that the designer of the keyboard thought he knows better which functions I need and took valuable space in the modifier row for a key which I will probably never use. And what tells you they won't make this key configurable? Nothing. > Media control functions? Come on. Most people listen to music, you know. It's certainly not crazy to have them on ever…

The FN key, especially on laptops, is not something the OS has any control over. A few laptops have a bios setting to allow swapping fn and ctrl buttons, but not all of them.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/514781/intercepting-the-f...

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#29

Post by andrepd »

ueie wrote: post #14
andrepd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the main page: "It's important to note that the above are only the layers of the factory keymap. You can redefine them in any way and create multiple, custom, application-specific keymaps."

I don't notice anywhere in the description which clarifies if the Fn key itself can be changed to, say, ctrl or alt. I also would avoid this (otherwise nice) keyboard if Fn could not be changed to a standard modifier.

I guess you could make a rule like Fn-* = Ctrl-*. And anyway the plan seems to be making the software Free, so you can hack it anyway.

Re: Where should the “6” key be?

#30

Post by mondalaci »

ueie wrote: post #14
andrepd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the main page: "It's important to note that the above are only the layers of the factory keymap. You can redefine them in any way and create multiple, custom, application-specific keymaps."

I don't notice anywhere in the description which clarifies if the Fn key itself can be changed to, say, ctrl or alt. I also would avoid this (otherwise nice) keyboard if Fn could not be changed to a standard modifier.

As the lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard I can confirm that the Fn key can be reprogrammed just like any other key.

You can make Backspace emit Ctrl, Enter emit Alt+Tab, or make the Right Shift play back a macro.

Post reply on HN