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With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

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Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#31

Post by Xixi »

exacube wrote: post #12
Xixi wrote: post #5

“This is the first 3D printing tech that really has the potential to break out of the prototyping realm that 3D printing has been relegated to until now” Nope. 3D printing has been there for quite a while already: it is being used quite massively in the aerospace industry, and not for prototyping...

examples / links?

Over 1,000 parts of the A350XWB are 3d printed using a specific resin (called ULTEM 9085) with interesting properties for the purpose of building an airliner: it's light, strong, and FST (flame, smoke, and toxicity) compliant. [1]

Replying to another post, it might not be very high volume, but it certainly isn't prototyping: it's in production in a very heavily regulated sector. More impressive to me than mass producing for example 10,000,000 key holders a month.

[1] http://3dprint.com/63169/airbus-a350-xwb-3d-print/

Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#32

Post by digikata »

Xixi wrote: post #5

“This is the first 3D printing tech that really has the potential to break out of the prototyping realm that 3D printing has been relegated to until now” Nope. 3D printing has been there for quite a while already: it is being used quite massively in the aerospace industry, and not for prototyping...

Many think of 3D printing taking over low-cost high-volume production. In that area there are real economic and tech hurdles. But, the niche of 3d printing in the aerospace industry (or any low volume, high-cost, high-complexity parts) is akin to Tesla first building the Roadster in a high-margin, high-performance auto market before trying to expand out to more general markets. It's a good sign, and moving from prototyping shapes to some form of printing for actual part use is the most interesting aspect of the maturing of 3d printing.

Another example: http://www.geaviation.com/company/additive-manufacturing.htm...

Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#33

Post by 542458 »

Veedrac wrote: post #27
542458 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the impression I get. It's certainly better than traditional SLA, but still maintains all of SLA's major disadvantages (material/consumable/machine cost, low speed, resin smell/fumes/toxicity, general mess, part decay/degradation over time, limited materials). The tech might take over the SLA space, but I doubt they'll take a significant bite out of other printing processes.

> low speed This is one of the primary things they advertise most improvement on. Their graphic[1] shows massive speed increases. I don't know about most of the things you've mentioned, but it also looks like it provides far higher quality output than other products, given that it uses continuous deposition and the projector is precise enough to form smooth curved surfaces. [1] http://3dprinting.com/wp-content/upload…

Whoops, you're right - it does have speed benefits. That said, I really doubt that chart they're showing off. I know our SLA machines could print something significantly larger than the maximum object size on the Carbon3D machine in less than the 11.5 hours they list. I would like it see what the actual test case is.

Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#34

Post by dekhn »

sciencedangyou wrote: post #29
jglauche wrote: post #2

Wow, that's a lot of funding for just another resin 3d printer. We have had printers like Form1 in the low-cost segment. I'm surprised about the funding amount, as the market is currently very very stagnating.

You do realize they were on the cover of Science Magazine? I don't understand how people think there is nothing technically new here when one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed journals in the world features your paper on its front page.... http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228.cover-expansion

There is a trite, but not completely inaccurate statement about Science: if it gets published there, it's likely to be sexy and wrong.

Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#35

Post by grondilu »

> Instead of using steel to build certain high-strength components of an airplane, for instance, Carbon3D would be able to 3D print a lightweight alternative by shaping plastic into a form previously impossible to manufacture.

This is what I'm most curious about. More specifically, I wonder if Carbon3D's device could be used for something similar to what Julia Greer is working on at Caltech (the nanotruss materials).

Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#36

Post by saulrh »

mcphage wrote: post #24
saulrh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quantitative improvement, not qualitative. They don't need to separate the resin from the base plate after every layer, which means vastly improved speed and precision and much less complexity. It's the difference between a car that can go 5 miles per hour and a car that can go 50 miles per hour - only quantitative improvement, but now you have a reason to use it every day.

Of course, in manufacturing they're competing against injection molding, which can go a metaphorical 100,000 miles per hour.

But has its significant limitations, notably that it takes a colossal machine and days to weeks to design, optimize, and machine a mold. Injection molding works great if you want to get to Pluto, but it'll cost you two years, a partnership with NASA, and a thousand tons of LH2 and LOX, and that cost remains constant even you just want to hit the supermarket. Current 3d printers can get you to the grocery store pretty well, but you're out of luck for anything bigger.

Carbon3d offers a new middle ground - fast enough and good enough for small production runs, but without the titanic constant-time overhead demanded by injection molding. This isn't going to be used for parts that you need ten million of. It'll be used for parts that you need a few hundred of.

Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#38

Post by hockeybias »

It is already a reality and has been for some time.

Minnesota-based Protolabs.com has been making prototypes AND 'finished products' based on CAD/CAM files using CNC machining and plastic injection molding for more than a decade.

ProtoLabs has manufacturing sites in the US, UK, and Japan. Its customers can choose to have objects made from various resins, metals, and silicone rubber.

ProtoLabs purchased FineLine.com a year ago and now also offers 3D printing services.

I've done some consulting for Proto Labs.

Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#39

Post by Retric »

saulrh wrote: post #36
mcphage wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, in manufacturing they're competing against injection molding, which can go a metaphorical 100,000 miles per hour.

But has its significant limitations, notably that it takes a colossal machine and days to weeks to design, optimize, and machine a mold. Injection molding works great if you want to get to Pluto, but it'll cost you two years, a partnership with NASA, and a thousand tons of LH2 and LOX, and that cost remains constant even you just want to hit the supermarket. Current 3d printers can get you to the grocery store pretty…

Seems like there is a huge opportunity for 3d printing injection molds. It's probably more a tool chain question than an actual 3d printing question. But, by reducing the cost gap from mid-scale 3d printing to full scale production seems like a large potential net win. AKA, if the costs are similar at 10k and drop after that.

Re: With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

#40

Post by Veedrac »

542458 wrote: post #33
Veedrac wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> low speed This is one of the primary things they advertise most improvement on. Their graphic[1] shows massive speed increases. I don't know about most of the things you've mentioned, but it also looks like it provides far higher quality output than other products, given that it uses continuous deposition and the projector is precise enough to form smooth curved surfaces. [1] http://3dprinting.com/wp-content/upload…

Whoops, you're right - it does have speed benefits. That said, I really doubt that chart they're showing off. I know our SLA machines could print something significantly larger than the maximum object size on the Carbon3D machine in less than the 11.5 hours they list. I would like it see what the actual test case is.

I don't know what the test case is, but going from the article[1], at 100µm layers it prints at 500 mm/hour.

Form 1+ claims 10 to 30 mm/hour at this resolution, so Carbon3D is 20-50 times the speed. That puts Form 1+ about 2-3 times as good as the graph suggests.

CLIP (Carbon3D's name for their tech) isn't layer-rate limited, but cure-rate limited so the comparison isn't quite fair.

[1] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228/1349.abstract (free access if you sign up for an account)

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