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Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

hellobonsai.com

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Re: Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

#31

Post by stove »

matthewmcg wrote: post #19

The sample contract is well drafted and the plain English style is refreshing. The only bit of residual legalese is the bit before the signature blocks: "THE PARTIES HERETO AGREE TO THE FOREGOING AS EVIDENCED BY THEIR SIGNATURES BELOW." It's as if the drafters, after taking great pains to make the contract clear and straightforward, decided "well we better put some magic words in there or people won't think this is a…

Really? I'm confused by the sample contract. Section 1.3 seems to be in direct conflict with itself and also in conflict with Section 1.5.

  1.3 Payment. The Client will pay the Designer a flat fee of $10,000 once the work is finished. Of this, the Client will pay the Designer $2,500 before work begins.

  1.5 Invoices. The Designer will invoice the Client for work done monthly. The Client agrees to pay the amount owed within 15 days of receiving the invoice. Payment after that date will incur a late fee of 2% per month on the outstanding amount.

Re: Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

#33

Post by willyyr »

mthomasb wrote: post #20
willyyr wrote: post #10

This looks quite interesting. A couple of things i would like to see are: - sample without the need to provide an email e.g. show at least one and offer more samples when email is provided - what's the pricing / cut you take from the money transferred through your service?

One of the makers of Bonsai here. Thanks for checking us out! - Agree re email. Reason we did that is we realized most people don't have the need to create a contract immediately, and unless they bookmark us, they may not remember "that cool website that does my contracts for me..." Providing the sample contract + other relevant educational material in the meantime to stay top of mind was the best short term way to d…

I see what you did there. You might be able to a/b test what's converting better because you might loose some people entirely because they don't want to give away their email without first seeing a sample and then forget about it anyway. Thanks for the info about the fee, I definitely bookmarked your service for later use ;).

Re: Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

#34

Post by gexla »

bkrob wrote: post #30

This is my first time posting on Hacker News. Can I just say that you should be very careful about describing your contracts as "Bulletproof". There is honestly no such thing as a bulletproof contract. Secondly, telling people that "top attorneys" drafted the contracts is meaningless. That strikes me as just pure throw away marketing speak. There are many things to consider when drafting this type of agreement and I'…

Apparently they didn't run the marketing of the contracts by the attorneys.

I don't know much about law, but a lawyer told me that law isn't black and white. It's gray. So, bulletproof probably goes against that.

Re: Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

#35

Post by eflowers »

mthomasb wrote: post #20
willyyr wrote: post #10

This looks quite interesting. A couple of things i would like to see are: - sample without the need to provide an email e.g. show at least one and offer more samples when email is provided - what's the pricing / cut you take from the money transferred through your service?

One of the makers of Bonsai here. Thanks for checking us out! - Agree re email. Reason we did that is we realized most people don't have the need to create a contract immediately, and unless they bookmark us, they may not remember "that cool website that does my contracts for me..." Providing the sample contract + other relevant educational material in the meantime to stay top of mind was the best short term way to d…

Re: email I did the opposite. I was ready to view it now, but waiting for an email turned me off. So I tweeted it instead and hope I remember to go back to my tweet. And, there's a part of me that says, in a nice way, "you haven't earned my email yet."

Still, I love the idea and actually want to find a reason to use it.

Re: Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

#36

Post by fiberoptick »

bkrob wrote: post #30

This is my first time posting on Hacker News. Can I just say that you should be very careful about describing your contracts as "Bulletproof". There is honestly no such thing as a bulletproof contract. Secondly, telling people that "top attorneys" drafted the contracts is meaningless. That strikes me as just pure throw away marketing speak. There are many things to consider when drafting this type of agreement and I'…

Describing a contract as "bulletproof" and drafted by "top attorneys" is likely considered puffery [1] under the law, and should be fine in my opinion.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery

Re: Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

#37

Post by pyre »

s73v3r wrote: post #28
mthomasb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, still exploring carrot and stick options here to get clients to pay on time. One nice idea we've come across is a trivial discount for early / on time payment (~1-3%). We've heard anecdotally that it helps!

I hope that's coming out of your share.

You just quote high enough that the "discounted" rate is the real rate and the not "discounted" rate is the penalty rate. Then you're just rephrasing things (discount vs. penalty) to put a better spin on it.

Re: Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

#38

Post by jqm »

gexla wrote: post #34
bkrob wrote: post #30

This is my first time posting on Hacker News. Can I just say that you should be very careful about describing your contracts as "Bulletproof". There is honestly no such thing as a bulletproof contract. Secondly, telling people that "top attorneys" drafted the contracts is meaningless. That strikes me as just pure throw away marketing speak. There are many things to consider when drafting this type of agreement and I'…

Apparently they didn't run the marketing of the contracts by the attorneys. I don't know much about law, but a lawyer told me that law isn't black and white. It's gray. So, bulletproof probably goes against that.

Well, technically the contracts may not be affected by actual bullets so.....

Re: Bonsai: Bulletproof contracts, simple e-signing, escrow for freelancers

#40

Post by bkrob »

fiberoptick wrote: post #36
bkrob wrote: post #30

This is my first time posting on Hacker News. Can I just say that you should be very careful about describing your contracts as "Bulletproof". There is honestly no such thing as a bulletproof contract. Secondly, telling people that "top attorneys" drafted the contracts is meaningless. That strikes me as just pure throw away marketing speak. There are many things to consider when drafting this type of agreement and I'…

Describing a contract as "bulletproof" and drafted by "top attorneys" is likely considered puffery [1] under the law, and should be fine in my opinion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery

I disagree. Puffery comes into play where things of the law are not concerned. Things like advertising, marketing, etc.

Puffery has no place in the practice of law or -in this case- legal document drafting.

The courts take a dim view of this sort of thing where people might detrimentally rely on this explicit promise that Bonsai's contracts are "Bulletproof".

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