My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon • Hacker News Board

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#161

Post by TheCondor » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:10 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #17

bechampion wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree , also , Us as employees we need to learn when to say stop , i know we all work hard and we want to be the an important asset. But remember going the extra mile and getting recognition for it will only last until the next downtime/problem which could be tomorrow.

Us as employees we need to learn when to say stop There's a word for this, beginning with "U", that a lot of people don't like.

It seems to me, as an outsider that has rebuffed them several times, that they've found this subculture of abuse takers that will just sort of deal with it.

I know their pay isn't stratospheric, certainly not a shattering lifestyle change to leave. Many seem drawn to the allure of the name, it's a well known tech company.. Are these types capable of forming a union? by the time they are willing to stick their neck out to do something like form a union, it's just so easy to turn the page and leave.

I worked for a satellite TV provider years and years back, it was similar, very abusive, very demanding. I did my project and left, it just wasn't a good fit. In retrospect, the people that stayed all seem to be somehow damaged. It was just unhealthy, emotionally, I don't remember anyone that was actually happy in life being there. Also very similar to Amazon, they sell to the lowest common denominator, Amazon is effectively going toe to toe with Walmart, more so than google or apple.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#162

Post by kabdib » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:10 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #119

lordnacho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they decide to fire you, the real reason is never said. They'll just think of some BS and you'll be out the door.

Exactly. In most states companies can fire you for any reason, or even no reason. And if there is a reason, they aren't obligated to disclose it.

And let's not forget that Washington does not forbid non-compete agreements.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#163

Post by spacecowboy_lon » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:11 PM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #25

>With warehouses around the globe, my husband would get paged to fix problems in China in the middle of the night, in the UK in the wee hours of the morning, and then in the Kentucky warehouse during work hours. I worked at a company that wrote warehouse management software, and this definitely isn't unique to Amazon. When your software has a serious problem the company is losing a million dollars an hour, so they're…

If it's a million an hour you should have people permanently available running 3 shift 24/7 and probably with onsite Engineers.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#164

Post by RogerL » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:12 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #127

lordnacho wrote: post #6

Looking at this story (the wider Amazon story) it seems to me a lot of the value is getting extracted from employees in a sort of creeping way. So you might go to an interview where the manager says there's pager duty now and again, but it's not too intense. You get on the job, and it's a whole lot more intense than expected. You can't leave because you've just turned down a bunch of other offers and moved towns. You…

> So you might go to an interview where the manager says there's pager duty now and again, but it's not too intense. You get on the job, and it's a whole lot more intense than expected. And this is the biggest problem with tech hiring. The prospective employee can't know how bad it really is. So changing jobs is risky. Companies wanting to hire need to compensate for that risk with a definited benefit. Salary is the…

This is a big reason why people hang around. The stress of interviewing, not to mention the absurdities of how you are "measured", and you may just be leaping from the frying pan into the fire. It's easy, if not wise, to just stick where you are and grind through it. It'll get better, right? You'll always hear promises about how things are changing, how your concerns are being taken seriously, etc. Then you'll look up from your keyboard, 3 years have passed, and all that has happened is it got worse.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#165

Post by graniter » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:13 PM UTC

Unless you really have no other option to support yourself, you really need to change jobs (or departments, etc.) if your job is requiring you to get anywhere close to needing therapy. Having learned this the hard way, I just don't think it's worth trying to hold on for it to get better. Be willing to move on. You'll likely find another job and make the same amount. Plus job hopping often is helpful in your career. And when your job is going well, save up some money so that when (yes, "when", not "if") it goes bad you have some funds to drawn on so that leaving isn't a financial burden and you can support yourself when you are between jobs. After 20 years in the field, I've just come to recognize that just how it is. Plan for it. And there's no reason to put yourself through undue mental or family anguish because you are afraid of making less (when you probably wouldn't anyway).

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#166

Post by RogerL » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:21 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #147

apexkid wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for not saying that its better than a brothel of Bangladesh and China. It was clear in what context I have written my comment. Your argument can be qualified as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

well, his (valid) point is, that arguably most of this planet inahbitants would do anything possible to get a job like that, for even half the income. which is true. just we in IT and developers in particular are in these days amazingly spoiled, full of this feeling that we are some engineer++, more clever, and generally better than say construction engineers (or any other for that matter). back home we have a saying…

It's okay to be a sociopath to people so long as others have it worse?

No, sorry. Nothing requires Amazon to behave this way, and it is foolish besides - if you burn through people you are are basically training people up who then walk away and work for your competition. By having them work 80+ hours you are getting less actual work out of them then 40 hours. You are spending more on health care because this sort of environment causes stress. Etc.

We ain't going to shut up and take it just because there are worse things out there.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#167

Post by ascendantlogic » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:22 PM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #30

On call once every three weeks? Oh fucking noes! Out of hours support sucks, but yes, the reality is that you get paged, and you have to deal with things within SLA. It's hard, it's wearing, but one week out of every four is hardly intense. I was on call for five years. It nearly broke me - but this article is just whining . Why take such a role if it's such a problem? It sounds more like his wife bashing him every t…

> I was on call for five years. It nearly broke me - but this article is just whining

You admit you worked a job for five years that "nearly broke you". You do understand that life is not supposed to be about how much punishment you can endure in exchange for money, right? There are ways to pay your bills that don't involve inducing physical and mental health issues?

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#168

Post by RogerL » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:24 PM UTC

apexkid wrote: post #31

The email from Jeff to his employees was impeccably unsatisfactory. It was a sheer display of ignorance and rejection towards everything quoted and said. However, no matter how much Jeff sticks to that attitude, it wouldn't change the reality that Amazon is the most customer centric company on earth and the most employee apathetic company on earth as well. It reflects in major workplace elements like health schemes,…

The whole "this feedback is nonsense, I won't listen to it; oh, and please give me feedback, I take it seriously" thing was pretty absurd. Plus, he essentially blamed the people for being in this situation. I'd be splitting blood if I worked there and got that letter.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#169

Post by madaxe_again » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:28 PM UTC

ascendantlogic wrote: post #167

madaxe_again wrote: post #30

On call once every three weeks? Oh fucking noes! Out of hours support sucks, but yes, the reality is that you get paged, and you have to deal with things within SLA. It's hard, it's wearing, but one week out of every four is hardly intense. I was on call for five years. It nearly broke me - but this article is just whining . Why take such a role if it's such a problem? It sounds more like his wife bashing him every t…

> I was on call for five years. It nearly broke me - but this article is just whining You admit you worked a job for five years that "nearly broke you". You do understand that life is not supposed to be about how much punishment you can endure in exchange for money, right? There are ways to pay your bills that don't involve inducing physical and mental health issues?

Sure, but what's a reward without a challenge?

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#170

Post by RogerL » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 1:32 PM UTC

lrvick wrote: post #78

pjc50 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by leaving you just eat the money This requires that you have a good line of credit or savings that you can use to buy food, pay mortgage, etc. Most people don't have that.

So? You dont have to pay them back immediatly. I have walked away with neither credit or savings before. Thrown away stock and titles. There is never a good reason to let someone abuse you and hold you hostage from living a life you enjoy. I swear this is like listening to people in abusive relationships with tunnel vision. "If we break up I will be poor!" The world didn't end any of the times I have walked away. Lit…

Well, good for you. People have mortgages, they have children, and so on. Life is not as neat and clean as HN likes to make it. People are not robots, and do not always make perfectly rational decisions. Sometimes the 'easier' decision to stay at a company where you have reasonable assurance of continued employment and stability. I put easier in quotes because I recognize the truth of what you say, but in general this ability to just flippantly change jobs is a rare thing. No one was doing that in 2001, and people remember. You can jump to a start up, the bankers or somebody makes a bad risk decision, the economy is in turmoil, and in 8 months you are in foreclosure and trying to figure out how to cloth and feed your kids. Meanwhile your mother is ailing and needs your help, and your wife's father is wandering into traffic due to the Alzheimers. Silly, weak humans, right? We HN readers are above all that. Nothing bad will ever happen to us, so just throw caution to the wind.