Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data • Hacker News Board

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#31

Post by tim333 » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:17 AM UTC

Mimu wrote: post #8

tim333 wrote: post #2

I'm not sure the number of jobs is that related to the amount of work needing to be done. It's more people like doing something and so will tend to do so. Otherwise as the number of people employed in agriculture dropped from like 70% to 2% over a couple of centuries it would of led to 68% sitting about. But instead they invent new things to do - say interior design or computer game design. Whether the person designi…

If the only change is robots doing the jobs instead of people, my guess is most people will be starving to death on the streets.

You could get around the starving thing by the government taxing or owning the robots assuming they don't go all Terminator 2 on us.

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#32

Post by collyw » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:19 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #29

collyw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure it always does. Do you view the NSA's snooping technology as a benefit to society? More high tech, well paid jobs have been created there. Likewise I feel that a great deal of the tech involved in finance is of questionable benefit to society as aw whole. Does High frequency trading actually benefit anyone other than the banks?

I'm no financial expert, but I believe HFT benefits many people by making the difference between buy-price and sell-price smaller and increasing the liquidity of the market.

The banks seem to be the only ones benefiting from this as far as I can tell. My life doesn't feel any better for HFT.

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#33

Post by prodmerc » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:20 AM UTC

Uh, yeah, because there was room to grow or move in to. In 1900 people were still settling in America, and production has grown immensely worldwide at a steady rate since then, while population was relatively low.

Now, population has grown three fold in the last hundred years: http://www.historyfuturenow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/1...

There are more old people alive than ever before as a percentage of the overall population (I guess there's jobs in caring for them, unless robots do that, as well), and technology is at a point where it can replace humans completely, instead of working side by side.

I always say, the Industrial Revolution = humans aided by machines (say a ratio of 1-100), the Automation Revolution = machines aided by humans (take the same ratio in reverse).

You see the problem? Population is exploding, job automation is doing the same. In a society that needs to work in order to live, that is unsustainable.

I'm all for automation, but we need something for those who will simply have nothing to do in order to make money...

The people who own and maintain the machines will be fine, those who mediate relations between humans-humans-machines, as well. What about the rest?

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#34

Post by mavdi » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:20 AM UTC

collyw wrote: post #24

alwaysdoit wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society as a whole benefits, but there are high individual costs. We ought to figure out a way to smooth out those costs for the individuals.

I am not sure it always does. Do you view the NSA's snooping technology as a benefit to society? More high tech, well paid jobs have been created there. Likewise I feel that a great deal of the tech involved in finance is of questionable benefit to society as aw whole. Does High frequency trading actually benefit anyone other than the banks?

And this is only the economical measure of benefits for the society. For instance rarely anyone speaks of the environmental damage as a direct result of human advancement which might ultimately be fatal for society.

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#35

Post by nicktelford » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:24 AM UTC

dotcoma wrote: post #23

If true, is this good? Isn't the purpose of work to end (or to diminish, at least) all work? (and leave us with more time to take care of ourselves, our minds, our bodies, our souls, our kids, our parents, our friends, our neighbours, our politics, our environment etc)

If this was the only effect of technology, it would obviously not be good. However, technology has also greatly improved the quality of life.

I'd also argue that an end to work is something that we, as a society, are simply not ready for. Firstly, because our current economic system isn't capable of handling such a change, but also societally, people aren't ready for it. If I recall, there have been studies that have linked earlier retirement to a reduced life expectancy.

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#36

Post by jbb555 » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:27 AM UTC

This is self evident.

Secondly nobody can argue that there are less things in the world that we want to do than there were 100 years ago. They are not the same jobs but can anyone really argue that nope, there is nothing left to do. Of course not, that's absurd. Technology has simply changed and expanded the areas to work in.

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#37

Post by ck2 » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:30 AM UTC

I'm curious if in the 21st century those jobs are created in the same country they are servicing.

Because India (customer service centers) and China (apple product assembly) would say otherwise.

Technology has simply allowed easier outsourcing while funneling the profits to fewer and fewer people.

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#38

Post by aaron695 » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:31 AM UTC

Pointless article.

We know this, I don't think anyone has ever said otherwise. We also have had positive growth and increased consumption over this time as well.

When it will stop is the only interesting point now since there seems to be many indicators we are hitting limits.

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#39

Post by notNow » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:31 AM UTC

dotcoma wrote: post #23

If true, is this good? Isn't the purpose of work to end (or to diminish, at least) all work? (and leave us with more time to take care of ourselves, our minds, our bodies, our souls, our kids, our parents, our friends, our neighbours, our politics, our environment etc)

Do you really think that all or most people will share the same attitude towards life sans work as yours and won't fall into depression or trivial, aimless, meaningless or destructive activities?

Re: Technology has created more jobs than it has destroyed, says 140 years of data

#40

Post by scotchmi_st » Tue, Aug 18, 2015, 10:32 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #3

Even if you accept that the trend of more jobs being created by technology than are being destroyed will continue indefinitely, fretting over technology replacing you if you're taxi driver is very justified. Having to learn a completely new trade is not easy.

Then again, no-one ever said that you could learn a trade at 20, and that trade would still be relevant when you're 40. If capitalism is something you agree with, then you must also accept the transitory nature of your work. Although personally I do agree we should try to make it easier for people in that position.