Project Sunroof

For one, a major part of energy use today is non-electric because it makes more sense to use fossil directly, than to use fossil to generate electricity and use that. But once you have cheaper electricity than fossil, and cleaner, you can start to see these industries shift towards electric.

Not everything is susceptible to that, like say chewing gum made of oil partially will not go electric obviously. But transportation likely will, and heating could possible go renewable (not necessarily electric. e.g. geothermal, solar thermal etc).

And so the cleaner electricity is, the fewer barrels of oil one would need in some non/low electricity industries right now, transportation being the biggest.

Secondly, it's true that the majority of US oil isn't from the middle east, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter to the US, that's a silly argument to make. What happens if the middle east produced 0 oil the next 100 years? You can't say 'who cares', obviously the world would go into a state of shock. Oil prices would skyrocket, production and consumption and worldwide trade would all drop sharply and recessions would break out. Which leads to unemployment, social welfare issues, friction, don't even get started on wars between countries, civil wars would be damaging enough.

The 1970s showed how brutal oil politics could be to the economy, and that was small-scale compared to the most far reaching scenario.

And beyond that, anyone who exports to the US, like Canada, would think twice, after all why not sell it to China who's willing to pay $500 a barrel, too?

Also, even if you don't import the energy yourself, that doesn't mean the US can't profit or doesn't profit when US companies are involved in the oil industry in the middle east, even if the region doesn't export the majority of its oil to the US.

And lastly, even if you don't import it yourself, you may want to control who has access to the oil, and in what currency it's sold. You wouldn't mind Germany selling Nuclear reactors to the Netherlands or vice versa, it's a different story for Iran. Just like you might want to have some control over oil reserves because your control means China doesn't have it, despite not being a top customer yourself.

As for the final point, the concept of petrodollars is real, and the fact oil trades are denominated in dollars, and the effect the standing as a reserve currency has on the US is significant.

The US doesn't have to be a customer of middle east oil to have a benefit in controlling it, that's naive and it's getting a bit tiring to see everyone act like you're a dumbass when you make this claim, always immediately pointing to charts of Saudi Arabian and Iraqi oil imports being so small compared to 'omg lol US production & Canadian imports, you're so dumb, bet you didn't know that'. Don't get me wrong not saying you do this but it's a common theme when discussing the issue.

And really just look at history. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to look at the middle east and conclude oil plays a role. When Iraq was getting decimated on forged evidence of WMD, guess who was developing WMD, admitted having WMD, and tested WMD, not just any kind but the nuclear kind? North Korea. Otherwise a beacon of democracy and human rights and quality of life. Comparing the eagerness and focus on invading this country and Iraq is telling.

I mean do you really think trillions of dollars were spent on an intelligence fluke? Or that the carter doctrine was some minor policy plan that has nothing to do with oil?

Besides it's not like this is a secret. People like Cheney openly talked about the importance of controlling oil reserves, how demand would outstrip supply in the coming decades, and talking about how 2/3rd of oil is in the middle east and that access is important. Which brings up the final obvious point, which is that the US isn't running energy policy because of today's needs, but the needs in 50 years from now, so pointing to today's import charts is not comprehensive enough an argument.

So hell yes, renewables have a substantial impact on all of that. They're not the entire story, but a substantial part of it.

... And again, to compare apples to apples, you'd have to tease apart the tax benefits given to existing energy companies over the years to get a real accounting.

If you only care about the financial decision, then to be honest... not much beats investing in e.g. a broad S&P 500 tracking index. 7% inflation adjusted annual returns + dividends which you can reinvest to go up to 8-9%. Over a 20 year period that's 5x. I'd tune that down to 4x given there's risks and historical returns have been better than they probably will in the future. But it still means at 4x that your $15k solar installation could also have made $60k in the same period.

And there's no way a $15k installation will generate $60k worth of energy, somewhere between $10k and $20k depending on the cost per watt, solar capacity factor and local energy prices. (California does quite nicely and is on the upper end of this spectrum). About a third you get back from the gov, so in a 20 year period in Cali, investing $15k (subsidies included) you may get $30k-$35k in savings if you go solar.

It's really nice but it doesn't beat the market, and most states have cheaper rates than California which is like 30% above average and much fewer sun hours, and less competition, too. Wouldn't be surprised if installation costs were relatively more competitive in California.

So my point being is: 1) it's a great investment and I'd personally go for it. 2) it's, purely financially, not the absolute best way to spend your money, even if it saves you money. So there's still an element of 'I think solar is important' at play. 3) solar tech will get cheaper, but subsidies will fade out.

Amazing.