What is going on with SoundCloud? • Hacker News Board

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#51

Post by deng » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 2:10 PM UTC

ChrisArgyle wrote: post #31

deng wrote: post #3

It's a shame, really. SoundCloud used to be good service for independent musicians, and I really liked the social aspects of it and the integration into Ableton. But next thing you know, you read about deals with Warner and 100M funding and whatnot. Let's just hope Bandcamp keeps its focus; it's currently my favourite site for discovering new music.

SoundCloud's take-down algorithms are only targeting musicians who rely on sampling copyrighted works. This, clearly, is a large chunk of SoundCloud's current user base but I honestly think this will result in a net increase in quality.

But they want to make deals with the majors, and they already have one with Warner. Which is fine, of course, but it no longer interests me personally. Instead of being a platform for indie musicians, it seems they are more interested in becoming a streaming platform for music from major labels, and that no longer interests me at all. Besides, I don't think their funding will be enough to compete in that area...

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#52

Post by masklinn » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 2:21 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #19

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #5

Self hosting your stuff is the only reasonable way to publish these days. Everyone who could host it FOR you is falling prey to the DMCA, one after another. Either that, or work to fix this broken system.

You do know that the DMCA applies even when you're self-hosting right?

DMCA Title II only applies to service providers hosting third-party content. It does not apply to (or make sense for) first-party content hosting.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#53

Post by masklinn » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 2:23 PM UTC

tel wrote: post #21

rtpg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know that the DMCA applies even when you're self-hosting right?

I'm highly out of the loop. Why would someone self hosting their own music be prey to DMCA?

They might fall under Title I (which is the transcription of the WIPO treaty to US law), but most mentions of DMCA are about Title II (the "Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act") which only applies to service providers, not first-party content hosting.

First-party hosting still needs an ISP though, and that ISP can be sent DMCA notices.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#54

Post by pinaceae » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

the funny thing is that nearly every musician learns through playing covers. be it stumbling through a riff or trying to make a mashup in FTL. some progress into soemthing the audience likes, eventually start making their own music.

which the industry then makes their profits from.

kids like Kygo - start with DJ mixes, add a bit of their flavor, get noticed by Diplo+Friends, now doing his own thing. all documented through his soundcloud account.

the way to become a master is through imitation, then refinement. from music to code to sports, does not matter.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#55

Post by wishinghand » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 2:42 PM UTC

ChrisArgyle wrote: post #31

deng wrote: post #3

It's a shame, really. SoundCloud used to be good service for independent musicians, and I really liked the social aspects of it and the integration into Ableton. But next thing you know, you read about deals with Warner and 100M funding and whatnot. Let's just hope Bandcamp keeps its focus; it's currently my favourite site for discovering new music.

SoundCloud's take-down algorithms are only targeting musicians who rely on sampling copyrighted works. This, clearly, is a large chunk of SoundCloud's current user base but I honestly think this will result in a net increase in quality.

I made a completely sample free demo song for a friend to jam to and got stopped by the algorithm. I was referred to a song that was from a musical number with lots of chord and time changes. My sound was a single verse that was straight-ahead 4 chord rock. So while I wasn't hit with a takedown notice, I was prevented from posting until someone could listen to both songs (also it was really hard to listen to the song they quoted due to it's rarity).

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#56

Post by jszymborski » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 2:55 PM UTC

jcadam wrote: post #14

Every time a new idea for a site/app/etc. involving 'music' and the 'internet' occurs to me (or is suggested to me), I immediately reject it out of hand: "Nope, DMCA/RIAA/ASCAP/etc. -- too risky." P.S. Take a look sometime at ASCAP's requirements and fees/rates for digital music services -- it's insane . I don't know how any service could keep ASCAP placated and turn a profit.

That's why we need something decentralised as torrents and as flexible and intuitive as Soundcloud.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#57

Post by ChrisArgyle » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 3:33 PM UTC

deng wrote: post #51

ChrisArgyle wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SoundCloud's take-down algorithms are only targeting musicians who rely on sampling copyrighted works. This, clearly, is a large chunk of SoundCloud's current user base but I honestly think this will result in a net increase in quality.

But they want to make deals with the majors, and they already have one with Warner. Which is fine, of course, but it no longer interests me personally. Instead of being a platform for indie musicians, it seems they are more interested in becoming a streaming platform for music from major labels, and that no longer interests me at all. Besides, I don't think their funding will be enough to compete in that area...

Fair point about the focus on majors. I would argue, though, that they're not completely abandoning indies, just raising the bar for entry. Like going from hypem.com to pitchfork.com

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#58

Post by drzaiusapelord » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

wishinghand wrote: post #55

ChrisArgyle wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SoundCloud's take-down algorithms are only targeting musicians who rely on sampling copyrighted works. This, clearly, is a large chunk of SoundCloud's current user base but I honestly think this will result in a net increase in quality.

I made a completely sample free demo song for a friend to jam to and got stopped by the algorithm. I was referred to a song that was from a musical number with lots of chord and time changes. My sound was a single verse that was straight-ahead 4 chord rock. So while I wasn't hit with a takedown notice, I was prevented from posting until someone could listen to both songs (also it was really hard to listen to the song…

This is a great example of how badly configured these systems are and how ultimately, they do more harm than good. It also brings up an interesting question. After a couple hundred years of recorded music, eventually everything will have some historical basis. If copyright law is to be enforced this harshly, then how do new works get created without hitting some automated censor firewall?

The elephant in the room, of course, is how strong copyright laws are. Unfortunately, Congress has shown little interest in reforming them.

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#59

Post by boomlinde » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:07 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #53

tel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm highly out of the loop. Why would someone self hosting their own music be prey to DMCA?

They might fall under Title I (which is the transcription of the WIPO treaty to US law), but most mentions of DMCA are about Title II (the "Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act") which only applies to service providers, not first-party content hosting. First-party hosting still needs an ISP though, and that ISP can be sent DMCA notices.

What is the responsibility of the ISP to its subscribers in that case? I.e. would I reasonably be able to take legal action against them if they deny me the service for what turns out to be a frivolous DMCA claim?

Re: What is going on with SoundCloud?

#60

Post by wishinghand » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:14 PM UTC

coderdude wrote: post #40

tel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying there's space for a "DIY self-hosting" product which integrates with a promotion network?

Sounds like this is something Gumroad could do if they added a marketplace to list the items for sale on their platform. Difficult to categorize all those items but worth it. I'd browse.

I emailed them ages ago about being able to browse, but them and vhx.tv are not really into doing that now. Maybe later but for whatever reason they want people to reach their site and buy through the content creator's reach instead of having a searchable archive.