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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#71

Post by adultSwim »

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

If only there was a structure to represent workers where we could take such issues...

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#72

Post by c_lebesgue »

dataker wrote: post #21

All of this discussion brings me to the Stanford Prison Experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment In such hierarchical systems, the issue goes beyond abuse itself, bringing deinvidualization and loss of personal identity. That partially explains why some workers won't leave the company even for a similar/higher salary.

My thoughts exactly: which one is true? A) Amazon is a kind of narcissistic codependency/Stockholm syndrome environment; B) the "horror" stories are exaggerated; C) the job is so cool that people are willing to take some abuse; D) there is other reason as to why Amazon succeeds.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#73

Post by matwood »

sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

The article is nothing new. The work environment at Amazon has been a discussion for years at this point.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#74

Post by notNow »

I strongly believe that anyone working in a company that really is like the one described in the NYT would be crazy to stay. I know I would leave such a company.

The cynic in me would interpret this as a tacit invitation by the Bezo-man himself to unhappy employees to beat it and don't let the door hit them on their rears on their way out if they don't like working here but I could be wrong but with the likes of Bezos and Ellison, you shouldn't set the bar really high when it comes to human empathy.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#75

Post by ben1040 »

revscat wrote: post #48
mratzloff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you're not under contract, you might as well find out for yourself if you like it or not.

It's getting to the point where having Amazon on your resume is a negative, though.

How so? Technical reasons, or because people assume you've been steeped in a toxic culture long enough that you're radioactive yourself?

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#76

Post by joesmo »

degradas wrote: post #10
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

There is book a called Corporate Confidential [1], written by a former HR person. One of most significant ideas there is that HR is (from the perspective of an employee) not your friend, but rather an enemy. They exist to protect the company, not you. Basically, going to HR is a quick way to get fired (for legal reasons, mind you) or kill your career. Whole book is highly depressing, but very useful if you want to tr…

Going to HR is indeed the end. I had one boss suggest that some incredibly minor conflict be solved by HR. Immediately, I knew it was time to change jobs. A few weeks later, when I handed in my resignation, my boss was surprised and tried to get me to stay. I offered them about a 15% increase in pay, but left as they weren't interested. I still don't understand why he'd be surprised. I suppose some people, even after many years in the corporate world, have no idea how it works. So I've come up with something to help me remember:

"Going to HR" === "End of job"

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#77

Post by cperciva »

degradas wrote: post #10
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

There is book a called Corporate Confidential [1], written by a former HR person. One of most significant ideas there is that HR is (from the perspective of an employee) not your friend, but rather an enemy. They exist to protect the company, not you. Basically, going to HR is a quick way to get fired (for legal reasons, mind you) or kill your career. Whole book is highly depressing, but very useful if you want to tr…

They exist to protect the company, not you.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that they can't be on your side. If you report that your boss is doing something which is against company policy and hurts the company, it's quite possible for HR to be simultaneously on your side and on the company's side.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#78

Post by cherimoya »

sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

Keep this in mind: It's easier to find a job when you already have one. It takes the stress off the process and you automatically become more desirable for some reason.

If I were you I wouldn't cut off the opportunity immediately, but I would continue looking for another job at the same time. The world has changed in the last few decades in terms of job loyalty so there won't be any kind of stigma against you if you only stay for a short while and you can say "I was offered a better job" as the reason for leaving.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#79

Post by [deleted] »

beachstartup wrote: post #64
zamalek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not advocating or rejecting the Amazon boycott, simply here to challenge the way you think: while everything you said is logical you can't simply treat people like trash, it doesn't matter if they are white collar, gold collar or can't-afford-a-collar. A situation that shares many similarities is: "it is that woman's fault that she does not leave her abusive husband." That is laying blame on the person who was ab…

> A situation that shares many similarities is: "it is that woman's fault that she does not leave her abusive husband." oh please . this isn't reddit, HN is full of grown adults with jobs and relationships that live in the real world. women have full agency in 2015 and to claim they don't is so insulting and sexist i don't even know where to begin. same with white collar professionals. i don't condone what amazon doe…

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#80

Post by zamalek »

beachstartup wrote: post #64
zamalek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not advocating or rejecting the Amazon boycott, simply here to challenge the way you think: while everything you said is logical you can't simply treat people like trash, it doesn't matter if they are white collar, gold collar or can't-afford-a-collar. A situation that shares many similarities is: "it is that woman's fault that she does not leave her abusive husband." That is laying blame on the person who was ab…

> A situation that shares many similarities is: "it is that woman's fault that she does not leave her abusive husband." oh please . this isn't reddit, HN is full of grown adults with jobs and relationships that live in the real world. women have full agency in 2015 and to claim they don't is so insulting and sexist i don't even know where to begin. same with white collar professionals. i don't condone what amazon doe…

> this isn't reddit

Exactly. Only reddit would draw conclusions from the metaphorical device in an analogy.

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