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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#61

Post by computer »

pinaceae wrote: post #46
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

seems like people in the US mistake the Human Resources department with Workers Councils. in Europe, you go to the Council, never to HR. the Council is job protected, guaranteed pay - hence no way to apply pressure from the company. HR is not a bad department, they are very important, but they serve the CEO, their role is to keep the whole thing going, avoid waves of any kind and keep a good hiring pipeline. surprise…

You speak about "Europe" like it's a country with a single set of regulations. It's not-- it's a continent. Even for the European Union, the rules are actually extremely varied:

http://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relat...

And even those countries with councils have (as the link also mentions) very varying rules on exactly what the councils do. Please don't say "Europe" when you mean "some European country".

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#62

Post by binxbolling »

pinaceae wrote: post #46
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

seems like people in the US mistake the Human Resources department with Workers Councils. in Europe, you go to the Council, never to HR. the Council is job protected, guaranteed pay - hence no way to apply pressure from the company. HR is not a bad department, they are very important, but they serve the CEO, their role is to keep the whole thing going, avoid waves of any kind and keep a good hiring pipeline. surprise…

Let's not delude ourselves: in the US, in public non-union orgs, everyone is there to serve the CEO.

Some people in this thread make it sound like every department is actively thwarting senior management and working counter to the company's business—except HR, who are in on the game or something. So, fuck HR, right? They couldn't possibly be one cog, along with every other cog, in a larger machine designed to extract value from workers for owners/shareholders.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#64

Post by beachstartup »

zamalek wrote: post #15
seibelj wrote: post #3

I've been reading various comments about this around the internet and many people are saying they will stop ordering from Amazon because of it. These white collar workers are highly paid, and not forced to be there. Most of them could easily find another job someplace else (and it sounds like many do). I just can't feel bad for them. If you don't want to work throughout your vacation, go find another job that won't m…

I'm not advocating or rejecting the Amazon boycott, simply here to challenge the way you think: while everything you said is logical you can't simply treat people like trash, it doesn't matter if they are white collar, gold collar or can't-afford-a-collar. A situation that shares many similarities is: "it is that woman's fault that she does not leave her abusive husband." That is laying blame on the person who was ab…

> A situation that shares many similarities is: "it is that woman's fault that she does not leave her abusive husband."

oh please. this isn't reddit, HN is full of grown adults with jobs and relationships that live in the real world.

women have full agency in 2015 and to claim they don't is so insulting and sexist i don't even know where to begin.

same with white collar professionals. i don't condone what amazon does but it's your own damn fault if you decide to stay, and same with individuals MALE OR FEMALE in abusive relationships, and believe you me there are plenty of males in horrendous relationships - physically, mentally, and emotionally abused by their wives or girlfriends.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#66

Post by [deleted] »

computer wrote: post #61
pinaceae wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seems like people in the US mistake the Human Resources department with Workers Councils. in Europe, you go to the Council, never to HR. the Council is job protected, guaranteed pay - hence no way to apply pressure from the company. HR is not a bad department, they are very important, but they serve the CEO, their role is to keep the whole thing going, avoid waves of any kind and keep a good hiring pipeline. surprise…

You speak about "Europe" like it's a country with a single set of regulations. It's not-- it's a continent. Even for the European Union, the rules are actually extremely varied: http://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relat... And even those countries with councils have (as the link also mentions) very varying rules on exactly what the councils do. Please don't say "Europe" when you mean "some European…

[deleted]

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#67

Post by mrbig4545 »

degradas wrote: post #10
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

There is book a called Corporate Confidential [1], written by a former HR person. One of most significant ideas there is that HR is (from the perspective of an employee) not your friend, but rather an enemy. They exist to protect the company, not you. Basically, going to HR is a quick way to get fired (for legal reasons, mind you) or kill your career. Whole book is highly depressing, but very useful if you want to tr…

I always thought HR was there to manage the resources the humans need, e.g. teabags. That and justifying their existence by making more resources for the humans. It really does strike me a non-job that requires a lot of work to keep in existence

That's about the only dealings I have with them. I guess that's a benefit of working at a small company :)

On a serious note though, you're right, HR is not your friend, it's there for the companies sack, not yours. I personally have more faith in my immediate manager that HR, at least you have contact with them, vs the nameless/faceless myth that is HR

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#68

Post by joesmo »

Sounds like Bezos is just doing damage control. The original article is somewhat interesting but hardly novel. I've never talked to a single person who worked at Amazon who had anything positive to say. You have recruiters recruiting for Amazon who are basically saying, "Do not work there." They are being paid on commission to get you to work there and they're telling you what a horrible place to work it is, killing any chance of moving forward. I find that quite telling of what kind of place Amazon is.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#70

Post by GnomeChomsky »

anotherangrydev wrote: post #58
GnomeChomsky wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't people with "despicable morals and class" in every profession? Some of us are actually in HR because we like thinking critically & creatively behind the scenes to make others successful. I totally get why that might not describe the HR teams you've encountered, but I don't think we can all be characterized with such a broad brush.

You're the 1%, then. Honestly, I haven't met one decent guy in HR in a loooong time. Quite the contrary, I have plenty of bad experiences with HR that made me believe those things. I'll give you my favorite examples: I once got fired because I told some bitch (she was really a bitch, and that's not just my opinion, the whole workplace thought of that) to mind her own business. I was on a break and reading a magazine…

What's frustrating is that it, of course, doesn't have to be rotten. We can take one baby step by abolishing terms like "human resources" and "human capital" because labels do matter.

I also wonder if part of the problem is that HR leaders have (broadly speaking) traditionally been 'town planners' when you really need a mix of 'pioneers' and 'settlers' in there too. E.g. don't put a town planner in charge of culture & retention, and don't put a settler in charge of healthcare & benefits compliance.

(Ref: http://blog.gardeviance.org/2012/06/pioneers-settlers-and-to...)

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