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Why is Bitcoin forking?

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Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#61

Post by hollerith »

zekevermillion wrote: post #51

There is no law against publishing software that would introduce a blockchain hard fork if run. Yes, XT infuriates those who hope to make money based on the appreciation of their pre-fork bitcoins. Publishing XT introduces economic uncertainty in the short term, and long-term undermines confidence that we can rely on the mathematical promises of bitcoin at all. If XT is successful, why wouldn't Hearn (or Coinbase, or…

>Yes, XT infuriates those who hope to make money based on the appreciation of their pre-fork bitcoins.

Could someone explain how the XT fork might affect the future value of currently-existing Bitcoins?

I expected it to have a neutral effect, since one fork will eventually die out (and since the fork does not try to change the rate at which Bitcoin are created). Even if both forks persists somehow, every holder of a current Bitcoin will essentially have 2 Bitcoin -- one spendable on one fork, another spendable on the other.

Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#62

Post by heinrich5991 »

zekevermillion wrote: post #51

There is no law against publishing software that would introduce a blockchain hard fork if run. Yes, XT infuriates those who hope to make money based on the appreciation of their pre-fork bitcoins. Publishing XT introduces economic uncertainty in the short term, and long-term undermines confidence that we can rely on the mathematical promises of bitcoin at all. If XT is successful, why wouldn't Hearn (or Coinbase, or…

>If XT is successful, why wouldn't Hearn (or Coinbase, or another person with interests divergent from large bitcoin holders) publish XT 2.0 removing the coin max? Or introduce any number of other inflationary changes?

That's a rhethoric device one should avoid using.

Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#63

Post by olalonde »

hollerith wrote: post #61
zekevermillion wrote: post #51

There is no law against publishing software that would introduce a blockchain hard fork if run. Yes, XT infuriates those who hope to make money based on the appreciation of their pre-fork bitcoins. Publishing XT introduces economic uncertainty in the short term, and long-term undermines confidence that we can rely on the mathematical promises of bitcoin at all. If XT is successful, why wouldn't Hearn (or Coinbase, or…

>Yes, XT infuriates those who hope to make money based on the appreciation of their pre-fork bitcoins. Could someone explain how the XT fork might affect the future value of currently-existing Bitcoins? I expected it to have a neutral effect, since one fork will eventually die out (and since the fork does not try to change the rate at which Bitcoin are created). Even if both forks persists somehow, every holder of a…

There is also one possible scenario where both forks survive and become two distinct currencies.

Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#64

Post by simonb »

presty wrote: post #44
Taek wrote: post #15

For people who have not been following along, the Bitcoin block size debate has been very intense and pulled out a lot of interesting psychology from the Bitcoin community. Most of the core devs of Bitcoin are strongly opposed to increasing the blocksize to 8mb. 2 people in particular, Mike Hearn and Gavin Andresen, have been making very strong political pushes to get the majority of Bitcoin users to favor their bloc…

fwiw, it doesn't really matter what "everyone" says and decides. at the end of the day, it's what the miners decide to do that matters

Miners and exchanges.

Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#66

Post by lambda »

davidgerard wrote: post #57

All of this is noise. The opinion that counts is the miners: if the four largest mining pools go for it, it happens; if they don't, it fails.

Mmm, no. If the four largest mining pools go for it, but the various exchanges and online wallets do not, then you get a very dangerous fork where you now have two separate currencies, and have the possibility of double spends. The nodes that are not updated to allow these larger block will keep on going along with their chain, just rejecting the other chain as invalid; and the ones that do accept the larger blocks will probably see their chain as longer and so only accept that one. That fork means that until all of the online wallets, exchanges, and anyone accepting Bitcoin directly realize that there are now two different currencies, all kinds of fun can be had with double spending.

Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#67

Post by ryanmarsh »

With so much money at stake (and potentially large concentrations of it) why isn't there much of a governance model for Bitcoin?

I see many articles touting the so called democratic governance model of Bitcoin and if that is indeed the model then what other "popular delusions and madness of crowds" will my money be subject to in the future?

Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#68

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

olalonde wrote: post #63
hollerith wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, XT infuriates those who hope to make money based on the appreciation of their pre-fork bitcoins. Could someone explain how the XT fork might affect the future value of currently-existing Bitcoins? I expected it to have a neutral effect, since one fork will eventually die out (and since the fork does not try to change the rate at which Bitcoin are created). Even if both forks persists somehow, every holder of a…

There is also one possible scenario where both forks survive and become two distinct currencies.

Do people with existing coins get to spend them on both chains?

Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#69

Post by dragontamer »

hga wrote: post #41
dragontamer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Gold Certificates are fake money. Many crashes in the 1800s were about Banks issuing too many certificates for the amount of Gold that was actually stored in their vaults. Gold Certificates are no different than credit cards or fractional reserve banking. The bank makes a promise without proving anything, and people are expected to trust the banks for things to work out. And when the poop hits the fan, people…

Except Gold Certificates are fake money. Which might be why I said: but at least you get a clear signal when they get repudiated. When, not if. I think this may be better than how fiat money "works", but obviously opinions vary.

http://news.gtp.gr/2015/07/28/greek-depositors-allowed-to-wi...

I don't see how a gold standard would change any of this. Should the banks have issues, they will legally prevent bank runs by making it impossible to withdraw money.

Whether or not a bank is tied to the gold standard, this will occur.

> When, not if. I think this may be better than how fiat money "works", but obviously opinions vary.

No sarcastic "quotes" needed. We both know that both Gold Standard and Fiat Money works. The question is if anyone has actually studied the 1800s economy and honestly can tell me that it was better than the 1970s+ economy.

Bank runs a plenty, private persons losing their entire savings as banks folded. Etc. etc...

Re: Why is Bitcoin forking?

#70

Post by hollerith »

olalonde wrote: post #63
hollerith wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, XT infuriates those who hope to make money based on the appreciation of their pre-fork bitcoins. Could someone explain how the XT fork might affect the future value of currently-existing Bitcoins? I expected it to have a neutral effect, since one fork will eventually die out (and since the fork does not try to change the rate at which Bitcoin are created). Even if both forks persists somehow, every holder of a…

There is also one possible scenario where both forks survive and become two distinct currencies.

OK, but then if you have one BTC now, you will have one of each kind of BTC later, so that scenario does not explain why "XT infuriates those who hope to make money based on the appreciation of their pre-fork bitcoins".
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