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I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

mixpanel.com

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Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#51

Post by sosuke »

michaelmrose wrote: post #33
jkot wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why so angry? If company in Bengalore can have 70% women engineers, it should not be a problem for well funded startup in US.

Men make up 75% of the IT workforce and 82% of computer science graduates. If women aren't even studying the field it makes it a tad harder to hire them don't you think? People should aspire to hire the best people in their field not the "right" gender, color, sexual orientation etc. Anything else is bigotry under the flag of diversity. Also if you can do a little basic math you should be able to see that the average…

I may be stepping on a landmine, but your numbers make me curious. Is the goal of gender diversity 50/50 female/male, or is it 20/80 female/male based off the compsci graduates? What does it mean to have a diverse development team, and how did those numbers happen?

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#52

Post by DanBC »

eonw wrote: post #24
pdabbadabba wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason others are concerned about this while you are not is that many people regard this proposition as wildly incorrect: > men have struggles just the same Yes, men and women both have struggles. But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. Women are more likely to be sexualized in work (and any other) environments, their r…

that's all fine and dandy, but no one is bitching about the fact we have very very very few men working in the child care industry, for instance... better start subsidizing their jobs too? men and women were both given the same choice of universities and classes in high school. the tech sector did not turn its back on women or minorities, they turned their back on it. now that its profitable they want a piece of that…

> but no one is bitching about the fact we have very very very few men working in the child care industry, for instance

Don't lie. A simple websearch returns very many hits for people talking about the shortage of men in pre-school and primary school education.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#53

Post by hueving »

tdavis wrote: post #31
kefka wrote: post #5

Why should I care about more social justice demagoguery? I couldn't care less if you have a penis, testicles, breasts, vagina, uterus, or whatever combinations of said organs this unique little butterfly has. "What have you done, and what are you working on?" are important to me. And auxiliary to that would be "What life happenings lead you to addressing those questions?". I'm also curious how they learned the skills…

Kids, this isn't hard. Just apply a little logic. Statements like "all I care about is what you have done/created/accomplished" is predicated on the notion that everyone is already equal. That we all have the same access to opportunity, encouragement, resources, etc. Whether through malice or simple disinterest, you've managed to hold onto a basic assumption that would be exceedingly trivial for you to disprove. And…

>That we all have the same access to opportunity, encouragement, resources, etc.

Taking this to its logical conclusion then. Are you saying that "What have you done, and what are you working on?" is sexist because focusing on if people are working on something useful is sexist? If so, you are implying that women are not as useful, which sort of contradicts the idea that women are being underpaid for doing the same work.

So which is it? Is it that women are underprivileged and therefore producing less output, or should they be paid equally because they are doing the same?

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#54

Post by MikeKusold »

Since the page renders terribly for me, here are all the videos the page links to:

I am Tech: Challenges - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg_ECYhptDo

I am Tech: Love - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5EzYG-2fss

I am Tech: Advice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3NqI-0u9sA

Hilary Stone @ Mixpanel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_STckadkcVQ

Jenny Finkel @ Mixpanel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-2YaP4UfHY

Liz Clinkenbeard @ Github - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_tVT0dhEMU

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#55

Post by exstudent2 »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #48
exstudent2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But many believe (including myself) that women face many more challenges by virtue of being women, than men do by virtue of being men. That's absolutely a position you can only take because of your own privilege. Lower income men face arguably the worst discrimination available in the US since they are way over represented in our prisons. I don't think trying to determine which of the sexes has it "worse" is in any…

Hold the phone! I didn't say that all women have it worse than all men. I totally agree that gender is just one of many factors that gives some people unfair advantages and other unfair disadvantages. My only claim is that being a woman tends to be a disadvantage in the same way that being poor or being black tends to be a disadvantage. It obviously is the case that the advantage/disadvantage conferred by one trait (…

You said this statement:

> men have struggles just the same

Was wildly incorrect. It is not.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#56

Post by braythwayt »

kefka wrote: post #10
jkot wrote: post #9

Hm, company behind such project could be a bit more diverse. Here is picture of their team: https://mixpanel.com/jobs/

Great idea... So they should start hiring women who don't have the skills over others (who happen to be male) that do. Wonderful suggestion. But I'm sure they can fake-make a few Social Media fluff positions for women to fill. It's what GitHub did.

You sarcastically state: So they should start hiring women who don't have the skills over others (who happen to be male) that do.

This asserts that if a company has hired a preponderance of men, and then it goes out of its way to hire women, that it necessarily must hire women who are inferior to the men it was predisposed to hire.

This is based on your axiomatic belief that the company's hiring was already fair and unbiased, and if a company doesn't have any (or has few) women, this is because there weren't any qualified women to hire. Same for people of colour, &c.

So if hiring is already objectively fair, seeking diversity must necessarily involve hiring inferior people.

But the argument falls apart if hiring ISN'T objectively fair, if the assumption is wrong. And that's the point being debated. Thus, if you feel that hiring is already objectively fair, you should state that outright, not beg the question being raised.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#57

Post by pdabbadabba »

kefka wrote: post #5

Why should I care about more social justice demagoguery? I couldn't care less if you have a penis, testicles, breasts, vagina, uterus, or whatever combinations of said organs this unique little butterfly has. "What have you done, and what are you working on?" are important to me. And auxiliary to that would be "What life happenings lead you to addressing those questions?". I'm also curious how they learned the skills…

> I couldn't care less if you have a penis, testicles, breasts, vagina, uterus, or whatever combinations of said organs this unique little butterfly has.

Good for you! Neither I nor any of my SJW friends want you to care about which set of naughty bits people have.

What we want to you care about is the stuff that other people, who clearly do care about such silly things, say and do to cause problems for our fellow human beings. We're just trying to get you to help us get those people to knock it off.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#58

Post by Mz »

kefka wrote: post #5

Why should I care about more social justice demagoguery? I couldn't care less if you have a penis, testicles, breasts, vagina, uterus, or whatever combinations of said organs this unique little butterfly has. "What have you done, and what are you working on?" are important to me. And auxiliary to that would be "What life happenings lead you to addressing those questions?". I'm also curious how they learned the skills…

Explain to me why I should put an emphasis on someone's gender? Doing that is sexist.

I agree with you: You shouldn't put an emphasis on someone's gender and doing so is sexist. But, that doesn't mean this site is useless.

When women are a minority in a group setting, they see few examples of others like them. Minorities generally have issues that the majority population does not share and cannot understand. Getting access to information about what other people like them experience can be enormously helpful in ways the majority cannot understand.

You do not have to care. If you are male, this site doesn't have to be anything that matters to you at all. But that is no reason to piss on the idea or deny women access to information about others like them so they can figure out how to fit in and effectively pursue their own careers.

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#59

Post by pdabbadabba »

htns wrote: post #37
zorpner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exhausting to keep having this same conversation over and over, but I suppose that's the purpose of comments like yours. Look at the graduation rates for women and minorities from CS programs; then look at the industry participation rates, particularly over time and particularly with reference to seniority. They're not turning their back on tech, they're being driven out.

Looking at women's CS graduation rates means nothing if you don't look at overall graduation rates. I have yet to see any proof that women are really being driven out from CS rather than being driven into some other field.

True enough. But I don't think everything is necessarily A-OK so long as women are landing in some other field. It is also important why women are being driven away from CS (whether into some other field or not).

Re: I am tech – Real stories from women in technology

#60

Post by atrophying »

sbarker wrote: post #16
normloman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't put an emphasis on gender. But the numbers and stories like these prove that most people do, even if unconsciously. All of us are subject to biases, and pretending like you're above this reeks of hubris.

So let he hire all college degree holding males and you can hire every colorful butterfly and lets see who succeeds at a hackathon.

Lady hacker here. Bring it. We'll see who pwns who.

(Also, thank you for proving a point in an amazingly effective fashion - as if "college degree holding males" are the only people capable of working with tech. Your testicles don't automatically make you superior, and my vagina doesn't automatically make me inferior.)

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