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Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#111

Post by dmix »

rsync wrote: post #98
bsilvereagle wrote: post #2

> And finally, some traffic seems quite impenetrable. We configured our test virtual machine to use an HTTP and HTTPS proxy (both as a user-level proxy and a system-wide proxy) so that we could more easily monitor its traffic, but Windows 10 seems to make requests to a content delivery network that bypass the proxy. Does this mean a Win10 machine setup to use something like Tor will leak the user's actual IP back to…

Look. Seriously. I don't want to be a brat, but what is the possible overlap between people caring to use Tor (for whatever reason) and people using Windows 10 as the host OS ? You're at the absolute cutting edge of spyware-in-the-home, defective by design, obscured infrastructure that was designed from the ground up to be user hostile in every conceivable dimension. And you're going to run Tor on that. There's a phr…

Indeed, Microsoft phoning home is on the lower end of your concerns here.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#112

Post by PixelB »

kuschku wrote: post #94
ultramancool wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to use a software firewall and here's what I've blocked so far... https://up1.ca/#JQqL3y0xqLZnxaOlYQ0s6A And this is on a machine running Enterprise with privacy settings cranked, and most stuff disabled via group policy. I'm trying to avoid blocking updates, but svchost is still out there talking to random microsoft servers. The worst part is that I can't differentiate between the servers used for t…

Here’s an image link to your image that actually fucking works: http://i.imgur.com/i4ydV1a.png

His link worked for me.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#113

Post by nitrogen »

edgyswingset wrote: post #84
inversionOf wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I hardly think you're asking with any sincerity, sharing every keystroke, local system search, application activity, wifi passwords, and so on is over the top . Making that the default, instead of a value-add that you pitch, was profoundly poorly considered.

> profoundly poorly considered For the handful of people who care deeply about data collection, yeah. For the rest of the 900+ million, it's really not a concern. Edit: I know it sucks to hear, but your concerns about privacy are hardly shared among the general populous.

The concerns of the general populace bear only superficial correlation with what actually matters for the thriving of an enlightened society.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#114

Post by jeromegv »

fumar wrote: post #39

I'm not savvy enough to discern whether OSX os iOS does this. Does anyone know if iDevices also ping back to Apple?

OSX only does for Spotlight & Safari search, but you can disable it (and it actually disables it). Details here: https://fix-macosx.com

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#115

Post by ultramancool »

antsar wrote: post #106
kuschku wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s an image link to your image that actually fucking works: http://i.imgur.com/i4ydV1a.png

Thank you. Javascript is required to view and upload files. No, it is definitely not.

Up1 uses client-side crypto, so in this instance it is. No real point here though, but I use ShareX with it, and it's nice to be able to deliver screenshots and stuff like this privately.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#116

Post by PythonicAlpha »

Silhouette wrote: post #54
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the point. People are tricked into this and most of them did not read the terms or just ignored them. But Microsoft is on the secure side, because you confirmed the terms -- and not many judges in the world will blame Microsoft in this situation, even when you argue, that you haven't read the terms. When you sign an other contract, you also can not argue, you haven't read the terms (even when they are in very…

When you sign an other contract, you also can not argue, you haven't read the terms (even when they are in very small letters). Sure you can. And if it's a contract of adhesion between a business and a consumer where the terms are unreasonably loaded in favour of the business, you might actually win, too. (I am not a lawyer, your jurisdiction may vary, etc. I have however worked with real lawyers on real terms and co…

Sure, you can try with any contract -- and go to trial.

But I have seen worse contracts and the companies are coming threw with it most of the time, but maybe in your country the juristic system is better and not the size of the company or the number of lawyers are important.

I for my side, would not bet on winning a trial against Microsoft in such a case.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#117

Post by otis_inf »

In the post-Snowden era, USA tech corporations, like Microsoft, felt the downturn on trust from non-USA companies and citizens in their online offerings. With Microsoft betting more and more on their cloud services, I find it strange (or maybe it isn't strange, but let's be naive for a minute here) that Microsoft goes against this and actually gives people _more_ reasons to not trust them than less.

As if they're thinking we all don't give a shit. But if we all didn't, why the downturn in trust in USA tech corporations post-Snowden?

I can't help but think that this is either massively naive from their part (people/companies won't care, they will buy our stuff and services regardless) or very short-sighted (as it will hurt their cloud services offerings in the long run, the more they hammer down the trust from their own users in MS' wares.)

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#118

Post by Silhouette »

scholia wrote: post #102
Silhouette wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Microsoft care very much about their business customers, which is why this seems such an odd strategic move. As you say, why try to copy a company like Google's business model when they have their own well-established one? I'm half-wondering whether the plan has always been to prioritise the consumer market with Windows 10, and they're taking a reasonable punt on the fact that most businesses won't upgrade f…

Agreed. Windows 7 is still a current Microsoft product and I don't think Microsoft is expecting the bulk of enterprises to move until 2020, if not later. And since Windows 10 is to a large extent a move into remote PC management, Microsoft obviously wants to manage them with as much info as possible. Telemetry is the quid pro quo for free upgrades for the life of the device. The handful of geeks (somewhat less than a…

Telemetry is the quid pro quo for free upgrades for the life of the device.

This is where I start to challenge what Microsoft should (as a matter of law and/or regulation) be allowed to get away with. As I've stated in other posts in this discussion, I think there is a reasonable expectation of support for a significant period for this kind of software product given that the only reason those updates are actually necessary is that the original product someone paid for was defective. We don't know how to write perfect software yet, but I don't think software companies should be allowed to ship defective software and then change the deal retrospectively in exchange for putting right what was their own mistake in the first place.

Public interest has been phenomenal, the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive, and most people seem to be very happy with it.

I wouldn't know. Among people I actually know personally in real life, whether professionally or friends and family, geeky or not, I'm aware of literally no-one who has actually installed Windows 10 other than for testing purposes. On the other hand, I do know plenty of people, again both professionally and personally and both geeks and not, who seem quite convinced that they don't want it for now in light of things like forced updates, privacy concerns, hesitation after being disappointed by the Windows 8 touch-biased UI, hearing about paying to hide ads just to play a game, and other negative aspects. Moreover, so far no-one I've talked to seems to have found any good, concrete reason to upgrade, other than the not-really reasons like "it's free" and "it's the new version". The occasional gamer mentions DirectX 12 and the occasional web developer mentions Edge as something they might need to test with, but the general reaction seems to be a resounding "meh" in the circles I move in. YMMV, of course.

I'm also curious about where these positive reviews are, because the Internet I've been reading for the last few weeks has been one disaster story after another as far as Windows 10 coverage is concerned. In light of my previous point, I assume the Internet all those other people have been reading has looked similar. But again, YMMV.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#119

Post by PythonicAlpha »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #73
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the point. People are tricked into this and most of them did not read the terms or just ignored them. But Microsoft is on the secure side, because you confirmed the terms -- and not many judges in the world will blame Microsoft in this situation, even when you argue, that you haven't read the terms. When you sign an other contract, you also can not argue, you haven't read the terms (even when they are in very…

Uninformed consent is not consent. This needs to be applied to the business world and all other legal contracts.

You are right. But I have seen so many cases, where companies come away with it.

This is something, that definitively should be changed in our legal systems, but they are far from perfect, even when there are sometimes some honorable judges around (much to seldom in my country!).

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#120

Post by mjcohen »

t0mbstone wrote: post #79
enqk wrote: post #67

This highlights what we really lost when consumer operating systems started replacing enterprise-grade operating systems. I would have never imagined this kind of things happening on something like Solaris or Irix, which were the base operating systems of many workstations. At some point when Linux became popular it suggested that the regular consumer would benefit from the robustness, focus, reliability of an entrep…

Would you let the creator of your fridge eat some of your food, if they gave you the fridge for free?

Maybe, from the stuff in the back that is way past its use-by date.
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