Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#51

Post by joosters » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:13 PM UTC

tempodox wrote: post #6

Maybe I'm just jaded, but does that really surprise anyone? Most “developments” at MS have been nothing but successive layers of lipstick-on-a-pig. No amount of lipstick can make the pig underneath go away.

The underlying OS is actually decent, the dev tools they provide are good and the dedication to backwards compatibility is better than anyone else.

Unfortunately, the OS is then loaded with so much extra crud, like all the privacy snooping problems, the crapware (even an ISO downloaded from MS contains junk adware-loaded 3rd party games and software), and so on.

From a technology standpoint, the base OS is far more than lipstick-on-a-pig. Windows XP -> 7 -> 10 has been a decent progression.

I'd still never recommend Windows 10 to anyone though. The evil outweighs the good.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#52

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:15 PM UTC

tempodox wrote: post #6

Maybe I'm just jaded, but does that really surprise anyone? Most “developments” at MS have been nothing but successive layers of lipstick-on-a-pig. No amount of lipstick can make the pig underneath go away.

I'd say Microsoft is more pig-on-lipstick, if you see what I mean. Some of the core technology is rather nice. The devotion to platform stability is generally welcome. The problem is that it comes chained to restrictive business practices, and now privacy invasions.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#53

Post by drdaeman » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:16 PM UTC

blackbeard wrote: post #34

Kenji wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just redirect all that stuff it sends to 127.0.0.1 by editing your hosts file?

You can, but we have 450 workstations and about 600 servers. That somewhat multiplies the problems.

1000+ machines and no way to update a file with a few commands/clicks/whatever-your-configuration-management-system-uses? (Ok, at worst, making a batch file and scheduling its launch.)

If so, I suppose you have big issues with your system administration team.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#54

Post by Silhouette » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:16 PM UTC

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #45

thescrewdriver wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've currently got a system with the Windows 10 downloaded, but I am hesitant to actually proceed with the (up?)grade. Like many people I assumed that it was just the same old Windows with more enhancements, not something with batshit crazy privacy defaults, that even when disabled still leak data.

That is the point. People are tricked into this and most of them did not read the terms or just ignored them. But Microsoft is on the secure side, because you confirmed the terms -- and not many judges in the world will blame Microsoft in this situation, even when you argue, that you haven't read the terms. When you sign an other contract, you also can not argue, you haven't read the terms (even when they are in very…

When you sign an other contract, you also can not argue, you haven't read the terms (even when they are in very small letters).

Sure you can. And if it's a contract of adhesion between a business and a consumer where the terms are unreasonably loaded in favour of the business, you might actually win, too.

(I am not a lawyer, your jurisdiction may vary, etc. I have however worked with real lawyers on real terms and conditions documents, and have been consistently advised that it's preferable to avoid surprising terms and that if any do need to go in then they should be early and prominent to maximise the chance of them standing up if anything ever got to court.)

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#55

Post by blackbeard » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:16 PM UTC

EvanAnderson wrote: post #46

blackbeard wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can, but we have 450 workstations and about 600 servers. That somewhat multiplies the problems.

If they're using DNS to resolve the name of the "mothership" just put a bogus record (or zone) in your DNS. If they're not using any name resolution protocol and you can isolate the IP addresses they're talking to just blackhole them at your border.

We're already doing that but it's hard work keeping up with it all.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#56

Post by blackbeard » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:19 PM UTC

drdaeman wrote: post #53

blackbeard wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can, but we have 450 workstations and about 600 servers. That somewhat multiplies the problems.

1000+ machines and no way to update a file with a few commands/clicks/whatever-your-configuration-management-system-uses? (Ok, at worst, making a batch file and scheduling its launch.) If so, I suppose you have big issues with your system administration team.

Yes they're factory pressed Windows administrators who are to be honest fucking useless unless it comes to pointing at someone else but that's another story...they're being replaced piecemeal by bits of Ansible and Linux machines.

Realistically we don't want to deploy a host file and AFAIK it doesn't work anyway; we want to control the network itself which we do via firewalls and DNS but it's a compromise between flexibility (our users still need to use the internet) and security.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#57

Post by jcadam » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:21 PM UTC

Wow. I use Linux and BSD on my own machines, but the rest of the family is on Windows 10. This sort of thing makes me seriously think about trying to get the wife and kids to consider switching :/

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#58

Post by TsomArp » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:23 PM UTC

thescrewdriver wrote: post #36

Until recently Microsoft had taken a far more reasonable approach to privacy than say Google. Anyone remember the MS "gmail man" ads mocking the way Google inspects your email when MS doesn't? It seems that MS under Nadella has taken a decidedly Google-like turn away from privacy with Windows 10. MS seems as hell-bent as Google and Facebook to collect as much data about you as possible, even if it is for seemingly in…

An algorithm reading your email to look for words to server better ads is hardly spying imho. I rather see ads of things that interest me than ads for casinos. And I'm hardly a MS lover.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#59

Post by cmdrfred » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:25 PM UTC

ultramancool wrote: post #49

blackbeard wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Windows 10 for a couple of days now. VPN traffic doesn't leak if the default route is the VPN interface. I tried it and my firewall went silent apart from the tunnel. I have absolutely no fucking idea what it is sending out though. It's always talking to something. I've turned everything off that is documented and use a local account and remove-appxpackage'd everything. Sorry but this release is a write…

I've been trying to use a software firewall and here's what I've blocked so far... https://up1.ca/#JQqL3y0xqLZnxaOlYQ0s6A And this is on a machine running Enterprise with privacy settings cranked, and most stuff disabled via group policy. I'm trying to avoid blocking updates, but svchost is still out there talking to random microsoft servers. The worst part is that I can't differentiate between the servers used for t…

Glasswire huh? Good stuff.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#60

Post by ultramancool » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #59

ultramancool wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to use a software firewall and here's what I've blocked so far... https://up1.ca/#JQqL3y0xqLZnxaOlYQ0s6A And this is on a machine running Enterprise with privacy settings cranked, and most stuff disabled via group policy. I'm trying to avoid blocking updates, but svchost is still out there talking to random microsoft servers. The worst part is that I can't differentiate between the servers used for t…

Glasswire huh? Good stuff.

Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan actually. Decided to try it out this run, but I used to run Outpost, which I liked a lot more as it could do per-host blocking and stuff.

This feels more like a pretty network monitor than a real firewall.