Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

blogs.windows.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 173 posts

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#161

Post by tacos »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #40
tacos wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish I could show about 70% of the Windows knuckleheads a few Linux tools. And I really wish about half of Hacker News would spend twenty minutes with Visual Studio and Azure. Both sides have no idea what is possible. And, no. No joke.

Show me the Linux tools.

This will get buried here and is worthy of a separate thread. But... what are the "gateway drugs" for a Windows-centric dev? A Linux-centrix dev?

For me it was Postgres to show what open source was really capable of (a more current example would be LLVM), and Python and SWIG as examples of things that simply don't exist inside the Microsoft ecosystem but which solve so, so many problems. And even on weeks where I'm sitting in Visual Studio all day, I still couldn't live without Cygwin, wonky as it may be. Also: your fears about licensing and quality and some of the other FUD I see in threads like this are largely bullshit.

On the other side, any Mac or Linux dev who prefers Eclipse or Xcode to Visual Studio really needs to have his or her head examined. There's a culture shock, yes. Now give it a few days and deal with it. C# is superior to Java -- much smarter language architects and bigger, better teams, better tech, better docs. F# type providers will make your head explode in a positive way. Azure kicks ass on AWS, sorry. And the sheer depth and volume of everything Microsoft does really can't be understood until you dig in. This is a company that spends $10 billion every year on R&D. And they're the most developer-focused company on earth by far. Also, they're actually not stupid, though you may have to take that on faith to start. There is also PLENTY of open source code. Also plenty of "pay $149 for something with support instead of beating your head against a bunch of snarky bastards on a mailing list for a week" options too for those moments when you have more money than time. Also: all your fears about lock-in and secret API and some of the other FUD I see here are largely bullshit, too.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#162

Post by nbadg »

teekert wrote: post #140
nbadg wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux? Absolutely, and especially in corporate environments. I'm not saying Windows 10 IoT is any better (I think it's very unlikely to be, but I also haven't evaluated it), but I can say for certain that I wish I had a single, identical python library for any IoT platform that handled interfaces as simply as:…

Like this? from time import sleep import RPi.GPIO as GPIO GPIO.setmode(GPIO.BCM) GPIO.setup(2, GPIO.OUT) while 1: GPIO.output(2, False) sleep(2) GPIO.output(2, True) Perhaps I'm not understanding what you want exactly, you seem to know what you're doing.

The problem is in pinmuxing. If you want to change the pins from their default modes, you're in for a world of pain. Systems on a chips (SoCs, basically run everything portable these days) are optimized to the point where different die pins can have different modes (GPIO, LCD framing, USB framing, might all be available, one at a time, on the same pin). Switching between them requires mucking about in the kernel and reconfiguring hardware and is, at least in my experience, incredibly painful.

Also, the sysfs mappings that the easy bindings tend to be written from are very, very slow (like ~3+ orders of magnitude slower than they should be: http://hackaday.com/2013/12/07/speeding-up-beaglebone-black-...).

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#163

Post by nbadg »

netik wrote: post #112
nbadg wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux? Absolutely, and especially in corporate environments. I'm not saying Windows 10 IoT is any better (I think it's very unlikely to be, but I also haven't evaluated it), but I can say for certain that I wish I had a single, identical python library for any IoT platform that handled interfaces as simply as:…

I'm not sure if you've dealt with Arduino in Processing, but it is exactly as you describe. void loop() { digitalWrite(ledPin, HIGH); // sets the LED on delay(1000); // waits for a second digitalWrite(ledPin, LOW); // sets the LED off delay(1000); // waits for a second }

Arduino is awesomely easy in this regard, but lacks a proper operating system, and the individual pins have fewer modes than systems on a chip. That is, in a way, exactly my point: the operating systems we have are so bad at portable systems that going without one can actually make development easier. That's a big problem.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#164

Post by teh_klev »

pjmlp wrote: post #160
teh_klev wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello fellow Clipper developer :) With a copy of Clipper and Brief[0] I used to conquer the world. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brief_(text_editor)

Back on those days I was using Q with its Wordstar key-bindings and Clipper 5 with its OO extensions, after some learning with Summer 87.

Before Clipper I also wrote a ton of code in dBase II and used WordStar (in text editor mode). This was on a couple of different NEC CP/M machines (an APC [0] with 8" floppies and it's sibling the PC-8800 [1] which had 8" and 5.25" floppies - no hard disks!). This was circa 1985/6. Then my boss bought Clipper Autumn 86 after we tried a few other dBase compilers (Quicksilver and I think dbXL). We also bought B-Linker after Nantucket/CA's supplied link ran out of steam for us.

I was a demon with the Clipper TBrowse object :) Happy days.

0: http://imgur.com/NjCBsYs

1: http://imgur.com/NcCTnUS

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#165

Post by MarkSweep »

bborud wrote: post #113
tigeba wrote: post #3

When they released this a couple of months ago I was pretty excited to try it out. I think the barrier to installation is a bit high. First install Windows 10, then custom install of VS, install IoT Templates, then about 30 more steps before you get the image to flash on your SD. How about a link to the image I can blast on the SD and kick the tires without a couple hours of downloading and installing prerequisites?

Business as usual for Microsoft. There must be something about their business model I'm not getting. Going to microsoft.com with the intent of buying Windows to install it on a naked PC or in a VM on OSX, I have yet to identify an option that allows me to: 1) buy a license, 2) download an ISO image. The closest solution I've seen is to download some exe file that presupposes that I have Windows installed somewhere so…

The is a link in the top right hand corner to the Microsoft Store, where you can buy Windows. When I bought Win7, I could download an ISO.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#166

Post by not_with_retard »

Nexxxeh wrote: post #117
teekert wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very funny considering the uneasiness people have towards "putting Linux on a computer". For the Raspberry Pi, the reality is completely reversed as NOOBS is the absolute easiest, most convenient way to put any OS on any computer ever. I really don't understand people who want this, with closed source software the learning stops at some point, you can't learn everything about your Windows-Pi even though it was create…

>Why would you want this? Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux? Knowing about Linux doesn't mean assuming it's the best tool for the job at hand. I've used Linux, I've installed Linux, I've fixed a couple of broken Linux installs etc. I've compiled software on Linux. I've imaged an SD card for a Pi from Windows pre-Noobs. I've installed Rasbi…

It's obvious you have not in fact used Linux, as everything you've tried to use as an excuse is 100% incorrect.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#167

Post by not_with_retard »

UK-AL wrote: post #149
jsingleton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried the technical preview of IoT core and was underwhelmed. The mouse didn't even work! It jumped around erratically making it unusable. My experience with Linux on the Pi is that it just works out of the box. Simple things that you need to install a driver for on Windows are plug and play on Linux [0]. I installed the desktop Windows 10 preview just to flash the SD card. Although I read in the Mag Pi [1] that th…

It's not meant to be a desktop. It meant to be be an embedded system with no mouse or keyboard and maybe a touchscreen.

It ships with mouse drivers, they don't work.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#168

Post by teekert »

jsingleton wrote: post #148
teekert wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very funny considering the uneasiness people have towards "putting Linux on a computer". For the Raspberry Pi, the reality is completely reversed as NOOBS is the absolute easiest, most convenient way to put any OS on any computer ever. I really don't understand people who want this, with closed source software the learning stops at some point, you can't learn everything about your Windows-Pi even though it was create…

I tried the technical preview of IoT core and was underwhelmed. The mouse didn't even work! It jumped around erratically making it unusable. My experience with Linux on the Pi is that it just works out of the box. Simple things that you need to install a driver for on Windows are plug and play on Linux [0]. I installed the desktop Windows 10 preview just to flash the SD card. Although I read in the Mag Pi [1] that th…

Someone badly just needs to make a bit for bit image. Or is that illegal? In anycase, as long as I keep it offline I'd at least be willing to try it out, without a win 10 machine it's my only option.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#169

Post by jsingleton »

teekert wrote: post #168
jsingleton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried the technical preview of IoT core and was underwhelmed. The mouse didn't even work! It jumped around erratically making it unusable. My experience with Linux on the Pi is that it just works out of the box. Simple things that you need to install a driver for on Windows are plug and play on Linux [0]. I installed the desktop Windows 10 preview just to flash the SD card. Although I read in the Mag Pi [1] that th…

Someone badly just needs to make a bit for bit image. Or is that illegal? In anycase, as long as I keep it offline I'd at least be willing to try it out, without a win 10 machine it's my only option.

I've written up the process here: https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-r...

I'd host the file but I imagine it will go out of date pretty quickly as MS change the original.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#170

Post by jsingleton »

lawl wrote: post #124
jsingleton wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use this python script to convert the image to standard raw format: https://github.com/t0x0/random Then flash it with your normal tool such as dd or Win32DiskImager.

Thanks! Made a quick script with this to unpack the other stuff (I couldn't mount the ISO for some reason) however 7z seems to handle the ISO and the MSI file both just fine. In case you're interested: https://github.com/lawl/Win10IOTRaspberryUnpacker

Looks good, thanks. I'm on Windows but it should be pretty easy to port to batch or PowerShell. I've used 7z command line before for automation.

The script makes an 8GB file by default but it should be possible to change that. Add a parameter for the size of the card or even auto-detect it.

I've documented the process and written up my thoughts on IoT core here: https://unop.uk/dev/windows-10-iot-core-public-release-for-r...

Post reply on HN