Lithium-ion car batteries are already commercially available, though cripplingly expensive: http://www.jegs.com/p/Lithium-Pros/Lithium-Pros-12-Volt-Lith... The innovation here seems to be the capacitor bank, which lets you get away with a much smaller and cheaper lithium ion pack.
Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
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Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#102I'd love to have a lighter bank of batteries in my (small) sailing yacht but I need something that can be "deep-cycled". Getting rid of several hundred pounds of batteries would leave capacity for more stuff! I could replace the engine's starter battery with this one for a bit of weight savings ... and it's protected from the "house" circuits" by a charging diode, so there's no risk of discharge.
Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#103Nonsense; lead acid batteries easily last 5 years or more.
Since the article lowballs the life of a lead-acid battery, it's reasonable to suspect that it's likewise overestimating the seven year life of this new battery, which would make them about equal.
> They’re filled with garbage materials that are terrible for the planet.
More FUD. The garbage materials are sealed, and batteries get recycled. Places that sell you the new one take back the old one, generally.
Battery places are not going to know what to do with this new-fangled thing.
So it's down to the 6 pounds and gas mileage. Okay, realistically, let's talk about the environment now: this is for an internal-combustion-engine car that spews several tonnes of carbon into the atmosphere. If you want to save the planet, ride a bicycle. Still, this could make in excess of a one percent difference in fuel economy, which is significant, and will easily more than pay for the battery. Say you spend 200 bucks on fuel per month. Get 3 of those back thanks to the 6 pound battery, that's 36 over 12 months. If it holds up for 10 years, 360 saved.
Easier on the lower back is a plus. For many people, this is a do not care; only the DIY battery swappers who do it in the parking lot will be somewhat relieved, as well as the people who swap batteries as part of their work duties.
Poor capacity is a minus. People don't just run the stereo while parked; sometimes they have the headlights on or use other accessories, not always ones built-into the car. On a warm day you might listen to the stereo, and have a fan circulating the air. How about emergencies? If you're stranded somewhere with a dead engine, it's better to have more battery capacity than less for whatever. Flashing your lights at another car, say.
> They die without warning
That is not entirely true: there are in fact warning signs which, combined with age (being say > 5 years) add up to "change the battery". A lead-acid batter that has given you five warnings will then die without an additional warning, if five warnings is all which that battery has been blessed with. Those who don't recognize the warnings of course curse the battery for dying without a warning.
Who is to say this battery won't exhibit sudden failure modes? Suppose the business takes off and millions of these that are actually sold to consumers are made in sweatshops overseas, with all kinds of corners cut to save costs. Will those units still hold up? Let's compare prototype to prototype, shipping product on the shelves with shipping product on the shelves.
Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#104Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was thinking about the internals. They might have components with higher potentials that are then regulated down to 12v. In a crash, those could be a source of high-voltage shorts that might be a source of ignition.
No worries there. Everything is right around the 12V level. We can boost the voltage on the capacitors some, but we never exceed anything that the alternator is spitting out.
Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#106(1) Those nasty things inside car batteries are easily recycled and in fact are recycled more often than not (like 95%+) (2) Car batteries do not last only 3-4 years as per the OP. Car batteries can last decades. There are many variables, but the car in my battery is far older than 4 years. (lol) (3) Replacing an easily-recyclable product with a less-recyclable one is no step forwards. (4) XX addressed by OP comment,…
Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#107Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#108Lead acid is traditionally very forgiving with regards to temperature. How does the electrical performance of your battery vary with temperature, especially at extremely cold (-40C) and extremely hot (80C) conditions?
Hey, co-founder here. It's very forgiving to temperature. Supercapacitors don't store energy using a chemical reaction, which make them a lot less finicky. On the low side, our power architecture also allows us to boost the voltage slightly if we sense that its cold outside, so we can account for the increase in resistance. It's also still go superior lifetime at high temps as well.
This picture shows a 10x decrease in life when the temp varies from 25C to 65C: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EDLC-Life_time_curves.png
[ 1 ] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor
EDIT: I'm not trying to inject bad feelings here or contradict Ohm. I'm just clarifying the effect of temperature on supercap life. There is some effect on cap lifetime at high temps. I hope the product succeeds. I know sailors have using lithium batteries for a while now, but as mentioned elsewhere, they are shockingly expensive (like $6k).
Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#109Lead acid is traditionally very forgiving with regards to temperature. How does the electrical performance of your battery vary with temperature, especially at extremely cold (-40C) and extremely hot (80C) conditions?
Exactly what I was thinking... ...and more on that point, I drive an RX-7 and my engine puts out _extreme_ amounts of heat under the hood. a 50C top-end probably isn't enough for driving on hot days. I would go for one of these without a second thought because a) though my car is light, reducing more weight helps out loads with performance and b) these things are known to kill alternators and I'd love advance warning…
Re: Ohm (YC S15) is a smarter, lighter car battery that works with your existing car
#110if it is so smaller inside the big case, why not pack twice the caps and have double the running time/service life?