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“It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

kickstarter.com

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Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#271

Post by cylinder »

blakeyrat wrote: post #214
TomGullen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "AAA Game" mean anyway? I'm a bit lost on the definition. Wikipedia says: > In the video game industry, AAA (pronounced "triple A") is a classification term used for games with the highest development budgets and levels of promotion. A title considered to be AAA is therefore expected to be a high quality game and to be among the year's bestsellers. By definition, a budget of $75k + 6-10 people wont make an…

This is all from the top of my head. Credentials: I play a lot of video games. AAA game (typical example: Skyrim): * Sells for $50-$60 * Has cutting-edge graphics and (generally) runs on the newest generation of hardware * Is available on most/all gaming platforms * (Nowadays) Usually has some celebrity involvement (Skyrim had Max von Sydow, Christopher Plummer, Michael Hogan. Oblivion had Patrick Stewart.) * 20+ hou…

I haven't played a game in 10+ years. Kind of miss it. If you had to pick one console game I should play what would it be?

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#272

Post by Bartweiss »

rkangel wrote: post #44
dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

Issues with estimating, particularly something like this, mostly comes down to meta-ignorance: you don't know what you don't know. Given a particular problem of a similar sort to something he's worked on, an experienced engineer will be able to list 10 different issues that might crop up. An inexperienced engineer won't know of those potential problems and will just see the most optimistic path possible. When you're…

This is a crucial observation.

"Hofstadter's Law" at work: any unfamiliar task will take longer than planned, no matter how much extra time there is the plan. You can't account for your ignorance with padding, you need some kind of actual knowledge.

The result, then, is that there are only a few ways to actual make an AAA game. One is to hire some quorum of people who've already made one, so that they can bring you up to speed. The other is to do enough proofs of concept that you can see the problems coming.

It looks like Woolfe went from some mobile, educational games to a AAA PC title. That, it seems, was too big a gap to predict and prepare for the hurdles they would face.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#273

Post by fpgaminer »

justin66 wrote: post #255
thenomad wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very good point. I hope that backers take it the same way. New stuff is risky by definition - and KS has funded some pretty major successes on risky projects too (Oculus).

I would feel a lot better having been a KS contributor to this than I would having been a KS contributor to Oculus. "Thank you for your contribution and now some other, better-connected investors and employees are going to make money off of their investment in us" is about the worst possible outcome of a Kickstart.

This is exactly the problem with Kickstarter. Backers assume all the risks, but gain no benefit from success.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#274

Post by ild »

dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

Yet STALKER was not vaporware after all.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#276

Post by selestify »

magic_beans wrote: post #227
selestify wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

72k USD per year seems quite low for even a fresh junior developer...

What state do you live in?! I make 20k less than that as a junior dev.

Seattle, Washington. Fresh out of school (with a master's), and 120k base before bonuses/stock. And I have the lowest compensation out of all my friends who graduated with me...

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#277

Post by amyjess »

> I guess our public silence the last few months already said a lot. It is not out of disrespect that our communication dropped to almost zero… it is out of shame.

PG has actually written on this subject: http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html

Basically, if a company stops communicating, it's almost a sure sign that it's in its death throes, and if a company is doing well, it's going to try to reach out as much as possible so they can show off how well they're doing.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#279

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Joeri wrote: post #160
rkangel wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Issues with estimating, particularly something like this, mostly comes down to meta-ignorance: you don't know what you don't know. Given a particular problem of a similar sort to something he's worked on, an experienced engineer will be able to list 10 different issues that might crop up. An inexperienced engineer won't know of those potential problems and will just see the most optimistic path possible. When you're…

The issue that I'm struggling with as I picked up experience and learned how to estimate better (read: higher) is of becoming a wet blanket. People will rave about this awesome thing we could do, and I'm the one saying "no, we can't, and this is why". That's why Steve Jobs said to stay foolish, it lets you chase after ideas that a rational person would consider too risky or just plain impossible.

The flip side of meta ignorance is the curse of experience. Inexperienced people are more likely to take big risks because "they don't know any better." Most of the time, these risks predictably don't pan out, but sometimes they do!

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#280

Post by aslakhellesoy »

rkangel wrote: post #44
dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

Issues with estimating, particularly something like this, mostly comes down to meta-ignorance: you don't know what you don't know. Given a particular problem of a similar sort to something he's worked on, an experienced engineer will be able to list 10 different issues that might crop up. An inexperienced engineer won't know of those potential problems and will just see the most optimistic path possible. When you're…

It's called Knightian Uncertainty - after economist Frank Knight.
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