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The Teflon Toxin

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Re: The Teflon Toxin

#171

Post by ars »

im3w1l wrote: post #20
Htsthbjig wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now Teflon has not C8 on it as it is manufactured. You will create dangerous compounds though if your pan goes over high temperature. This could happen if for example there is no oil in the pan. I have seen housewives and cookers heat the Teflon pan without oil for evaporating the water. Big no no with Teflon. I have seen metal scrappers burning teflon pans to use the pan for something else and painting it!(with tefl…

>I have seen housewives and cookers heat the Teflon pan without oil for evaporating the water. Big no no with Teflon. Oops... I regularly do this. Same question as previously.

You are fine. He is overreacting. Teflon itself is completely non-toxic.

Heating teflon to extreme temperatures will make it smoke, but it's way hotter than the smoke point of oil.

i.e. it's a far far higher temperature than anyone cooks at. (Maybe some specialized cooking methods, but they'd have to be without oil.)

If you did the same thing with oil, the oil would smoke and be far more toxic than the teflon.

i.e. teflon is safer than oil.

If you are not heating the pan beyond the smoke point of the oil you have nothing to worry about.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#172

Post by elektromekatron »

robbiep wrote: post #83
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use it. I only use saturated fats in mine (mostly lard and butter) and I use metal utensiles which helps to keep it smooth. I avoid vegetable oils because I find that they go sticky (they're also not as good for you to cook with as animal fat).

Why do metal utensils not scratch it?

They do scratch it, that's why they keep it smooth, but the iron is not a coating and is non-toxic, so it doesn't matter about wear.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#173

Post by ars »

Htsthbjig wrote: post #29
im3w1l wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have seen housewives and cookers heat the Teflon pan without oil for evaporating the water. Big no no with Teflon. Oops... I regularly do this. Same question as previously.

I do this on cast iron. Never on Teflon. You can use an oven thermocouple to measure the temp of your pan as you heat it without oil. If you do it once,and compare with the temps that are dangerous(you could see it on Internet) you will never do it again, as you will realize how fast temp goes up and how easy is to manufacture C8 with your pan. Water acts as a limit of temperature, when it is wet it can't go higher t…

> Obviously, when you see smoke in the oil it is not good either.

Exactly. The important takeaway here is that teflon becomes toxic only after the smoke point of the oil. i.e. oil is more toxic at high temperature.

So putting in the oil doesn't protect you from toxic fumes since you get those from the oil, but rather it gives a visible signal (smoke), that you could quickly turn off the heat because you are about to damage your pan. But as far as toxic fumes go it's too late - you already had those from the oil.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#174

Post by InclinedPlane »

imglorp wrote: post #70
InclinedPlane wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For casual home cooks I'd recommend hard anodized aluminum. It's an excellent non-stick surface, easily hand washable, non-toxic, fairly durable, and low cost. Really as long as you aren't constantly gouging it with metal things then it'll hold up for years and years. Cast iron is great too though, don't get me wrong.

Is that wise? Al cookware has questionable safety. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Health_concerns These guys recommend stainless or cast Fe. http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=92

Using Aluminum cookware does not result in a significant ingestion of Aluminum, hard anodized Aluminum even less so.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#175

Post by codexjourneys »

ars wrote: post #164
codexjourneys wrote: post #131

Teflon has been known to be toxic for years. I'm not sure why "default trust" is a good position when dealing with companies like DuPont and Monsanto that have been caught lying to the public before. "Default suspicion" seems like the more cautious and logical approach here. It's been more than a decade since I cooked with Teflon. I use glass, stainless steel, cast iron, or ceramic/enamel (love that old original Corn…

> Teflon has been known to be toxic for years. No it hasn't. Teflon is not toxic at all. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as assume you are just confusing it with precursors to teflon instead of teflon itself.

Yes, precursors are toxic. But it's also easy to overheat a Teflon pan when preparing to fry something up, and it's not healthy:

"Use low or medium heat with Teflon skillets and pans. When Teflon-coated cookware is overheated, the cookware releases fumes that may cause flu-like symptoms in humans." http://homeguides.sfgate.com/dangers-scratched-teflon-cookwa...

I prefer other types of cookware, for myself.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#176

Post by notbingo »

NhanH wrote: post #11

On the topic of chemical, how do you know if something is dangerous -- in the context of household item? Even with the MSDS and/or knowledge of the compositions, layman doesn't really have any sense on how dangerous something is (as it's all missing dosage). I'm a bit on the paranoid side (mostly because I think my roommate/ housemate has always been too liberal with spraying chemicals crap everywhere), and most of t…

>even if I wanted to I have no idea if I want to use something in my house.

Everything in your house is toxic. Pick up anything with the ingredients on the label and google a random one that has a funny name. Then read about it on wikipedia and you can go further from there if you want and see the studies. Chances are it is very toxic but it's used in small ammounts so you shouldn't worry about it because the effects only show up after years and years of use.

Then look at the unlabeled stuff and food packaging. What's it made of? What is it coloured with? What's in the glue that holds it together? What does the paper have in it?

Checkout the uses for isothiazolinone and related compounds like methylchloroisothiazolinone if you are curious about something that's in practically everything.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#177

Post by ars »

codexjourneys wrote: post #175
ars wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teflon has been known to be toxic for years. No it hasn't. Teflon is not toxic at all. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as assume you are just confusing it with precursors to teflon instead of teflon itself.

Yes, precursors are toxic. But it's also easy to overheat a Teflon pan when preparing to fry something up, and it's not healthy: "Use low or medium heat with Teflon skillets and pans. When Teflon-coated cookware is overheated, the cookware releases fumes that may cause flu-like symptoms in humans." http://homeguides.sfgate.com/dangers-scratched-teflon-cookwa... I prefer other types of cookware, for myself.

The problem with that advise is that oil releases MORE toxic fumes at a lower temperature than teflon.

Teflon is safer than the oil you are cooking with. If you heated it hot enough to make fumes from the teflon you would have a cloud of smoke from the oil.

They know this because did a test and found that oil is more toxic to birds than teflon.

So go ahead and cook with teflon on high, it's safer than using a lot of burning oil.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#178

Post by nickles »

mikeash wrote: post #144
nickles wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Economics, the Coase Theorem[1] predicts close to this outcome, although it speaks to efficient outcomes and not necessarily harm reducing outcomes. When strong property rights exist (and it is feasible for all parties to negotiate), then parties may reach an efficient allocation of resources regardless of how the resources were initially allocated. To use a typical example, imagine a train track runs through a fa…

The sparking train analogy fails because it supposes a single obvious entity causing a large amount of damage to a single person. To modify the analogy to fit the real-world situation, it would be more like if there were a million train tracks going all over the place, and the sparks from each train falls on millions of wheat fields, such that everyone lives in a diffuse cloud of sparks, and no single fire can be bla…

Just wanted to point out that you restated what was said in the parent.

>In practice, there may be costs associated with negotiations (e.g. lawyers), it may be infeasible to negotiate between all parties (e.g. if there are many farmers affected), or property rights are not sufficiently strong for one party to bar another from producing negative externalities, all of which can lead to failures of the theorem.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#179

Post by lfowles »

Retric wrote: post #122
mtviewdave wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the various recent threads about open office plans, some people have pointed out that extended use of headphones, at the volume required to shut out conversation, causes permanent hearing loss over the long term. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a tech company that takes that concern seriously.

You can use noise canceling headphones/ear buds to avoid the chatter and lower the volume. At ~300$ there not cheap, but not only do they help save your hearing they are also less distracting for those around you.

Active noise cancelling still adds to the absolute volume, doesn't it? I use some headphones intended for muffling yardwork at the lowest setting to have music drown out frequent background noises (carts moving by, nearby keyboards) but not necessarily uncommon things like people chattering.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#180

Post by codexjourneys »

scott_karana wrote: post #147
codexjourneys wrote: post #131

Teflon has been known to be toxic for years. I'm not sure why "default trust" is a good position when dealing with companies like DuPont and Monsanto that have been caught lying to the public before. "Default suspicion" seems like the more cautious and logical approach here. It's been more than a decade since I cooked with Teflon. I use glass, stainless steel, cast iron, or ceramic/enamel (love that old original Corn…

> and the result tastes better I don't doubt all your other points, but why did you include this one? Are you claiming that teflon-coated surfaces somehow add a taste, or demonstrably change the texture of the food cooked on it?

I've tried both and like the result from stainless steel and Corningware better. Granted, I was using older-style pans made a decade or so ago. YMMV, though the Teflon is not healthy for high-heat cooking. I avoid it, why bother?
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