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“It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

kickstarter.com

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Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#211

Post by [deleted] »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #203
s73v3r wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.

I didn't generalise, I gave an cherry picked example of a company that promised things they already had made (e.g. a wallpaper and soundtrack) and then said it's not always like that and so it depends, but it's not a priori a bad idea. The OP generalised by saying they wished game devs would simply never do merchandise all together, even though it looks like this project raised half its budget from rewards, and I thi…

[deleted]

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#212

Post by hamburglar »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #203
s73v3r wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.

I didn't generalise, I gave an cherry picked example of a company that promised things they already had made (e.g. a wallpaper and soundtrack) and then said it's not always like that and so it depends, but it's not a priori a bad idea. The OP generalised by saying they wished game devs would simply never do merchandise all together, even though it looks like this project raised half its budget from rewards, and I thi…

I think part of the problem is that they vastly underestimated the logistics of getting these physical items produced, and I think the GP's point is that you're doing exactly the same thing. You don't just go to a local printer and say "make me a booklet" and write a check and you're done.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#213

Post by scott_s »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #164
brudgers wrote: post #71

It's great to see people admitting their mistakes. On the other hand, the project was doomed from the start $50,000 just isn't enough money to produce a game, let alone a game and collateral merchandise. And the commitment to collateral merchandise for a project like this meant that effort that could have gone to making the game was committed to dealing with posters, printers and postage. There's a reason startups do…

Well I think people are getting the wrong impression here. They started this game in 2013 on their own money, got a subsidy to build a prototype that year, then in 2014 raised money from a loan in Belgium to finish the game. They communicated all of this in their Kickstarter. They then asked $50k I guess to finish up the game and expand the scope a little bit, and make some money on various rewards, but mainly I supp…

I think many people are getting the wrong impression on this thread - as you pointed out, it's the company that failed, not the project. They delivered on the project, but not in a sustainable way for their company.

For everyone interested, check out gameplay footage from the beginning of the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGadziSy_kM I hope my failures are as beautiful as this.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#214

Post by blakeyrat »

TomGullen wrote: post #79
dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

What does "AAA Game" mean anyway? I'm a bit lost on the definition. Wikipedia says: > In the video game industry, AAA (pronounced "triple A") is a classification term used for games with the highest development budgets and levels of promotion. A title considered to be AAA is therefore expected to be a high quality game and to be among the year's bestsellers. By definition, a budget of $75k + 6-10 people wont make an…

This is all from the top of my head. Credentials: I play a lot of video games.

AAA game (typical example: Skyrim):

* Sells for $50-$60

* Has cutting-edge graphics and (generally) runs on the newest generation of hardware

* Is available on most/all gaming platforms

* (Nowadays) Usually has some celebrity involvement (Skyrim had Max von Sydow, Christopher Plummer, Michael Hogan. Oblivion had Patrick Stewart.)

* 20+ hours of gameplay

AA game (typical example: Far Cry: Blood Dragon, Call of Juarez: Gunslinger):

* Sells for about $25-$40

* Made with last year's AAA engine

* Runs on last year's hardware

* Typically available on fewer or only one platform

* 8 - 20 hours of gameplay

Anything below that is either a classic game remastered (for example, the recent Homeworld remaster), or an indie title.

Frequently a AAA game (like Diablo III) will have a AA game come out at the same time to compete with it (Torchlight II.) In a lot of cases, like Torchlight II and Call of Juarez: Gunslinger, the AA game is actually a far superior game to the AAA games its competing with. ;)

Sometimes the sequel to a AAA game is a AA game, I'd say that's the case with Wolfenstein: The Old Blood.

Some games, like Portal and Portal 2, straddle the line. But I'd slot the Portal games as AA.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#216

Post by jakejake »

Udo wrote: post #183

> I guess our public silence the last few months already said a lot. While I can personally understand this reaction to having trouble, it's not healthy nor is it fair to cease communication in this way. A lot of promising projects announce difficulties by falling silent, including Limit Theory , which I was looking forward to seeing realized some day. Maybe crowdfunded projects need to shift to a mindset where it's…

I think sometimes it's a case where things are bad, but the project owners have a few long shots out there and are hoping that one of them will come through. I guess in a perfect world, they would just write that as well.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#217

Post by mangeletti »

Serious question: why not target a platform that's more similar to what Crash Bandicoot was built for, and then run it in some sort of Steam-compatible emulation layer[1]? This would have given you a potentially great game, and at least an MVP that you should sell and also show investors with a "imagine this with way better graphics!" pitch, instead of having great graphics without as much of a complete game, given limited time and resources.

1. I'm shooting from the hip, because I have zero game dev experience, and I know even know if this is possible, let alone whether it even makes sense (are 8-bit, etc. games more simple to build than those with modern graphics?).

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#218

Post by smtddr »

wisty wrote: post #156
eterm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minecraft is in no way a "AAA" game. Yes, it's a hugely popular game, but it is the archetype of "indie game done good".

Calling the number 5 selling game of 2014 "not AAA" is pretty much semantic. I agree, it's not AAA, in terms of assets, but I'm saying a "box of lego bricks" (or something like that - copying Minecraft won't work now) is the only way to compete with AAA on assets. PCG looks like a holy grail, but I doubt it (unless you can get it good enough to sell to AAA, then why wouldn't you just license the tool?). Minecraft is…

Angry birds, and all merchandise around it, also sold really well.... is that an AAA game too? CandyCrush? Farmsville back in the day?

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#219

Post by scott_s »

Udo wrote: post #183

> I guess our public silence the last few months already said a lot. While I can personally understand this reaction to having trouble, it's not healthy nor is it fair to cease communication in this way. A lot of promising projects announce difficulties by falling silent, including Limit Theory , which I was looking forward to seeing realized some day. Maybe crowdfunded projects need to shift to a mindset where it's…

Keep in mind that the project succeeded, but the company behind that project failed. The game was shipped, and is currently available. But because they were not able to do so in a sustainable way, they have no money leftover for the company, including to ship the physical Kickstarter bonuses.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#220

Post by redbar0n »

"I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong!"

"In the video game industry, AAA (pronounced "triple A") is a classification term used for games with the highest development budgets and levels of promotion.[1][2][3][4]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)

It should be obvious from this definition of an AAA game that 6-10 people in a small indie game studio can't make a game with 'the highest development budgets and levels of promotion'. It requires lots of $$$ and other resources, which an indie game company almost never has.

"Wisdom begins with the definition of terms." - attributed to Socrates

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