Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

kickstarter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 392 posts

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#201

Post by s73v3r »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #179
coldpie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish software kickstarters would stop doing physical rewards. The logistics of manufacturing and shipping are non-trivial and are so outside of any software studio's wheelhouse.

I'm not sure if it's true. It depends. Some stuff, for sure, like 3d printing tiny models of ingame characters, is something you can't just go out and do at scale without experience. But there's a lot of 'artbook' and 'wallpaper' and 'soundtrack' stuff. i.e. 100% of things that they already have. This project on its kickstarter already displayed lots of art and wallpaper material, and they launched the game obviously…

I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#202

Post by s73v3r »

micampe wrote: post #120
dudul wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I don't understand how they can not give anything at all to all the people who poured money into their kickstarted. What does it say about crowdfunding?

It says that people don't understand what Kickstarter is: you are investing in a project, not buying a product. Investments carry risk.

You're not even investing, though. Investment implies a share of the company.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#203

Post by IkmoIkmo »

s73v3r wrote: post #201
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it's true. It depends. Some stuff, for sure, like 3d printing tiny models of ingame characters, is something you can't just go out and do at scale without experience. But there's a lot of 'artbook' and 'wallpaper' and 'soundtrack' stuff. i.e. 100% of things that they already have. This project on its kickstarter already displayed lots of art and wallpaper material, and they launched the game obviously…

I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.

I didn't generalise, I gave an cherry picked example of a company that promised things they already had made (e.g. a wallpaper and soundtrack) and then said it's not always like that and so it depends, but it's not a priori a bad idea.

The OP generalised by saying they wished game devs would simply never do merchandise all together, even though it looks like this project raised half its budget from rewards, and I think we both can guess they spent more than half of their time developing the game, and even though one can find examples where merchandise was successful.

I also think you missed the point which is that they actually shipped the game, and made the merchandise. They just didn't end up selling enough and went bankrupt, preventing them from shipping the merchandise. If they'd earmarked the funds or actually sold as expected, none of this would be a problem. i.e. merchandise wasn't the source of their problems.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#204

Post by numbsafari »

pmr_ wrote: post #142
numbsafari wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what the backend motivations are. Clearly, the amount of work involved here was way too much. But if 72k can keep you alive on ramen and a futon so that you can make millions on the back-end ... Regardless, it's a gamble. But the up-front money isn't the only consideration. Especially if everyone has a real stake (which is not the case for startups in general).

72k can keep you alive on sub-standard living conditions, but it will not keep a team of 6-7 talented programmers and artists alive for very long. Not even for way below market pay and working in a garage. And a single person just cannot turn out something close to a AAA title.

Definitely not. I'm getting at the issue of employees versus founders. I'm responding to the commenters less than the OP. A lot of people are implying that the 72k would be spent on wages. If that was the expectation, then that's part of the failure.

I have friends who've launched XBLA games on much, much less working full time out of a basement. During development, they could barely pay rent. Afterwards, they buy new houses.

I feel like people don't take real risks any more, and seem to misunderstand what actual ownership of the outcome looks like.

Sign of the times?

And the issue of AAA ... well... Get a simple game or playable demo going and build off of that rather than shooting for the stars. Or did we lose site of what an MVP is, too? Sounds like the OP did.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#205

Post by robotkilla »

maccard wrote: post #188
robotkilla wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're correct... saying that you created a AAA title means that you can compete with major game studios... I think. However, in my opinion AAA doesn't apply to scope or budget but quality of experience. Super Meat Boy is one of the best games I've played in years and it doesn't come anywhere near the scope of say GTA 5 (which is also awesome). I don't think anyone calls SMB a triple-a title though... so I'd…

Collision detection is a ball ache even when you use an off the shelf solution. There's still loads of problems and edge cases to handle. There's the bullet through paper problem, where fast moving bodies will skip through thin objects. There's scale issues when dealing with large bodies colliding with small bodies. There's floating point precision if you're too far from the origin, how you handle narrow things tag c…

I haven't made it this far yet apparently. Good to know what to expect.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#206

Post by blakeyrat »

dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

From reading the reviews of the game on Steam, the main complaints are that it's buggy (especially with regards to enemy AI), and it's incredibly short (not even 2 hours' worth of content.)

There are a lot of $10 games that will entertain for 4-5 or more hours (even excluding the outliers like Terraria). I'm surprised that the developer was surprised at the perceived value of their product.

That said, he's right that the market for indie games is ridiculously saturated right now.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#208

Post by scott_s »

normloman wrote: post #36
BasDirks wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oh I didn't get the toy I paid for". Really? That's what you're posting when a group of talented artists see their dream shattered?

The artists have no right to complain. They were the ones asking for money in the first place. They promised the public they would deliver on the "toy." They underestimated what it would take to make the game. The backers are not free of responsibility, but the artists also have to accept blame.

Keep in mind the game was delivered, and is available for purchase on Steam.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#209

Post by brudgers »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #164
brudgers wrote: post #71

It's great to see people admitting their mistakes. On the other hand, the project was doomed from the start $50,000 just isn't enough money to produce a game, let alone a game and collateral merchandise. And the commitment to collateral merchandise for a project like this meant that effort that could have gone to making the game was committed to dealing with posters, printers and postage. There's a reason startups do…

Well I think people are getting the wrong impression here. They started this game in 2013 on their own money, got a subsidy to build a prototype that year, then in 2014 raised money from a loan in Belgium to finish the game. They communicated all of this in their Kickstarter. They then asked $50k I guess to finish up the game and expand the scope a little bit, and make some money on various rewards, but mainly I supp…

Thanks for the context.

I suppose that $20 for a PDF could be good business. I'm not convinced it's necessarily good business. It depends on the goal. If the business is shipping PDF's then it's obviously good. On the other hand, I suspect the minimum cost of fundraising is non-linear: that raising $10,000 requires more than 1.0% of the effort required to raise $1,000,000. But even if it's easier to raise $20.00 500 times than $10,000 all at once, if $10,000 ain't enough it ain't enough.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#210

Post by [deleted] »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #203
s73v3r wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think generalizations like yours are why things like this fail.

I didn't generalise, I gave an cherry picked example of a company that promised things they already had made (e.g. a wallpaper and soundtrack) and then said it's not always like that and so it depends, but it's not a priori a bad idea. The OP generalised by saying they wished game devs would simply never do merchandise all together, even though it looks like this project raised half its budget from rewards, and I thi…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN