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“It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

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Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#21

Post by jeremiep »

valarauca1 wrote: post #7
themoonbus wrote: post #3

"But changing gameplay from 2D to 3D had a major impact on overall development cost (we found out a little too late)" Not to pile on, but this was very surprising to me... how could you not know that this would have a major impact?

>Passion and commitment are not a substitue for experience The author explained more or less. Inexperience.

I say the exact same thing about Agile practices, "methodologies and procedures are not a substitute for knowledge and experience."

That message is a LOT harder to get through than it seems.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#22

Post by pmelendez »

tinco wrote: post #16
bluedino wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit off more than they could chew? Didn't have an extensive background in game building? Perhaps they just never built a 3D game before? It's kind of like when some of the first 3D games came out, modelers would model a brick then build a wall out of them, instead of just modeling a brick wall other ways, like putting a brick texture on a regular wall. They probably just couldn't come up with a good way to 'cheat' 3D…

Because from a distance it actually doesn't seem like so much work. The assets get crazy expensive, but they already had that covered. 3D collision detection and resolving is a solved problem, you can just get off the shelf components (for free), the real problem isn't gettin the game to work, the problem is in the polish. Jumping over fences, AIs chasing over 3d terrains, making sure people don't get stuck in random…

> the real problem isn't gettin the game to work, the problem is in the polish

Exactly this... Pareto principle (applied to time) is really relevant in this case.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#24

Post by pixelbath »

ivanca wrote: post #20
dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

Offtpic but you worked on Crash Bandicoot!? That's so awesome. I loved each version of that game and it made our childhoods much more fun (at countries all over the world, just as an example I'm from Colombia)

You might enjoy this then: http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/02/02/making-crash-ban...

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#25

Post by emilsedgh »

ivanca wrote: post #20
dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

Offtpic but you worked on Crash Bandicoot!? That's so awesome. I loved each version of that game and it made our childhoods much more fun (at countries all over the world, just as an example I'm from Colombia)

Confirming from Iran :)

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#26

Post by karlkatzke »

jeremiep wrote: post #21
valarauca1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Passion and commitment are not a substitue for experience The author explained more or less. Inexperience.

I say the exact same thing about Agile practices, "methodologies and procedures are not a substitute for knowledge and experience." That message is a LOT harder to get through than it seems.

Digressing a little from the central topic -- Yeah, it's actually amazing how hard that message is to get through. And you even see a dichotomy where the HR side of a company will understand that and will go out of it's way to hire experienced people and retain them, but Product/Project Managers will completely discount them to the point of driving experienced people out of a business when the knowledge and experience says "Build it X way or you're in a world of hurt a year from now. I lived that once and I don't want to live it again."

Or, put another way, "Security is not a feature the business needs at this time in this PII-heavy project."

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#27

Post by tinco »

[deleted] wrote: post #18

[deleted]

How is that squandered money? It's great that Flanders supports their game dev community. Why is 60k a lot of money for preproduction? It's absolutely peanuts. And yes, they actually managed to employ game developers and gave them valuable experience that most definitely is good for the Flanders games industry.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#28

Post by Balgair »

dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

Great Book tip, thank you. For others, here is a summary version of the book: http://javatroopers.com/Mythical_Man_Month.html

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#30

Post by CmonDev »

felhr wrote: post #23

Probably I am missing something but...Making a videogame (even an indie one) with 72.139 $? They were probably doomed from the very beginning.

That would be about enough to hire about one person (providing there is profit sharing on the horizon).
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