“It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed” • Hacker News Board

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#11

Post by gdulli » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:44 PM UTC

themoonbus wrote: post #3

"But changing gameplay from 2D to 3D had a major impact on overall development cost (we found out a little too late)" Not to pile on, but this was very surprising to me... how could you not know that this would have a major impact?

Seems like an inevitable side effect of making fundraising an impulse buy that circumvents due diligence. Not that it's inevitable to happen every time, or that crowdfunding can't succeed, just that the odds of a really basic sort of failure that could have been surfaced early on are a lot higher.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#12

Post by pmelendez » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:44 PM UTC

themoonbus wrote: post #3

"But changing gameplay from 2D to 3D had a major impact on overall development cost (we found out a little too late)" Not to pile on, but this was very surprising to me... how could you not know that this would have a major impact?

I worked once for a (non-Indie) game studio and HQ asked us to change our engine from 2D to 3D to accommodate some 3D art(in the middle of production). It implied a lot of work but the studio had the means to put some very experience people focused just on abstracting that pipeline.

This is harder that our case because it involves gameplay, so there were some naiveté from their part but I can see how from an abstract perspective it can be understimated.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#13

Post by jebblue » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:46 PM UTC

I was watching that game, I like first person more but this is a beautiful game to be sure! There's so much competition out there, I wonder how big The Fun Pimps team is in comparison, I'd assumed around the same size.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#14

Post by jnardiello » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:46 PM UTC

dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

Sir, you made my days when I was a teenager. Thank you.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#15

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:47 PM UTC

greggman wrote: post #9

I haven't played the game and I see the reviews are "mixed" on steam but looking at the video they certainly did an amazing job for such a small team. Of course at the end of the day it has to be a good game but they should still be really proud about how far they got. I hope they try again and apply whatever lessons they learned

[deleted]

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#16

Post by tinco » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:47 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #8

themoonbus wrote: post #3

"But changing gameplay from 2D to 3D had a major impact on overall development cost (we found out a little too late)" Not to pile on, but this was very surprising to me... how could you not know that this would have a major impact?

Bit off more than they could chew? Didn't have an extensive background in game building? Perhaps they just never built a 3D game before? It's kind of like when some of the first 3D games came out, modelers would model a brick then build a wall out of them, instead of just modeling a brick wall other ways, like putting a brick texture on a regular wall. They probably just couldn't come up with a good way to 'cheat' 3D…

Because from a distance it actually doesn't seem like so much work. The assets get crazy expensive, but they already had that covered. 3D collision detection and resolving is a solved problem, you can just get off the shelf components (for free), the real problem isn't gettin the game to work, the problem is in the polish.

Jumping over fences, AIs chasing over 3d terrains, making sure people don't get stuck in random stuff. Everything needs weird edge-case stuff that's not in a generic physics engine.

Perhaps they should've first made a 3d game with 2d physics, those games look great and the overhead is much more manageable. But hindsight is 20/20 and from what I've gathered they actually got really close to a great game.

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#17

Post by spydum » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:49 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #15

greggman wrote: post #9

I haven't played the game and I see the reviews are "mixed" on steam but looking at the video they certainly did an amazing job for such a small team. Of course at the end of the day it has to be a good game but they should still be really proud about how far they got. I hope they try again and apply whatever lessons they learned

[deleted]

It says they are in bankruptcy and the IP for the game is for sale (no doubt to pay down what they borrowed). Someone else could buy it up and build it, but not them (unless they could come up with cash for their creditors)

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#18

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:50 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#19

Post by BasDirks » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:50 PM UTC

Sumaso wrote: post #5

kelukelugames wrote: post #2

Here is the steam page. http://store.steampowered.com/app/281940/ Remind me of Alice, which had some beautiful levels. http://store.steampowered.com/app/19680/

It's a real shame, since I was really looking forward to this game! I suppose I should count myself fortunate that I didn't Kickstart Woolfe. Seeing these failed projects is grim reminder that just because you back something doesn't mean it will be delivered.

"Oh I didn't get the toy I paid for".

Really? That's what you're posting when a group of talented artists see their dream shattered?

Re: “It’s done, there is no way back. We tried, we failed”

#20

Post by ivanca » Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 2:52 PM UTC

dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I wanted to believe that a team of 6 to 10 people could make a game that looked and felt AAA. Boy was I wrong! When we made Crash Bandicoot (with a team of 7), it was already virtually impossible to make a AAA game with 6-10 people, and that was 20 years ago. I tell inexperienced entrepreneurs to take their honest best estimate and multiply by 10. Or, as Mark Cerny (our producer on Crash) used to tell us, "add one an…

Offtpic but you worked on Crash Bandicoot!? That's so awesome. I loved each version of that game and it made our childhoods much more fun (at countries all over the world, just as an example I'm from Colombia)