We all know that PV panels have a limited lifetime, and that building them has environmental cost. But I was wondering about recycling: does anybody know how much energy can be saved by creating new panels using materials from old ones?
How Cheap Can Solar Get?
61–70 of 138 posts
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#62i live off grid inside of a 500w/h peak footprint. i paid around $1000 for proper German (Schutten) panels, a charge controller suitable for them, 2 110ah "solar batteries" (lead acid usual cheapo old school stuff), and a Xantrex inverter. After nearly 1 year running a fridge, lights, computer, router, & studio monitors, I'm ready to add more battery capacity before the winter (cloudy days) and a small wind turbine.…
Can you expand on your views on ignorant city ways? Just because you don't need to run a hairdryer does not make everyone else ignorant and clueless.
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#63Hi. I'm the author of this blog post. Happy to answer questions people have, as time allows, on Wednesday. Upcoming posts will look at the future of wind power, the future of energy storage, and what the missing pieces are. If you don't want to wait, you can read my thoughts on energy storage here: http://rameznaam.com/2015/04/14/energy-storage-about-to-get-...
Greetings,
I do agree that Moore's Law generally holds true. However a better model is an approximation of multiple S-curves, where each S curve represents the beginning, growth, and maturation of each step in technology.
The smearing of S curves and integration of new lines of tech allow for what appears an exponential growth.
Also, I'd like your opinion on http://www.bioinspired.net/ -- Commercially available memristors, albeit high priced.
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#64If I could install solar today I would, regardless of cost (apartment living prevents it). That may sound crazy, but I theorize that when you consider externalities the cost of grid electricity already far exceeds the cost of solar. It's going to cost humanity a whole lot of money to both survive and fix the damage we're dealing to the environment today. I'd rather pay more now for solar, than pay through the nose la…
If your goal is to reduce environmental harm, why is it necessary that you use the solar electricity yourself?
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
A politician can make any kind of spending seem bad by just calling it a subsidy regardless of the social benefit. But when it benefits people they like it can just be quietly ignored. The real test should be if it ensures that people pay a "fair price" for a product. Paying a little more for clean energy is perfectly reasonable.
> The real test should be if it ensures that people pay a "fair price" for a product. Paying a little more for clean energy is perfectly reasonable. You could argue the other way and say that paying a little more for dirty energy is perfectly reasonable because someone has to come after them to clean things up. There is a cost to that.
Price manipulation in the market in any direction will end up providing an edge for someone to extract value / reduce the fairness to consumers.
Outside of very short term smoothing effects from strategic reserves, "fair price" raises some troubling price-fixing flags, for me.
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great, thank you Ramez. I know they're different technologies, but I wonder on the cross-over effects of the two. If people see a solar thermal plant going up near their town, will it encourage or discourage them from installing PVCs? Are nation states that encourage / subsidise large-scale solar thermal deployments more likely to encourage end-user scale (PVC-based) systems? Entirely agree managing storage is increa…
If people see a solar thermal plant going up near their town, will it encourage or discourage them from installing PV? I don't think this will make much difference - individual PV installation is an investment decision (just like other big home improvements) based on cost of energy and subsidies. It makes some difference to how "green" people feel, but the cost matters more. It may have an effect in planning battles.…
Understood, but I find solar too ambiguous. Like when people talk about nuclear. I like the idea of fusion reactors, but steadfastly oppose fission. Solar tech has two big branches, and conflating them is something we should stop doing any time now.
As to influence - I think HN types are more informed than the GP, so in our bubble it may be hard to speculate accurately on any such influence. By which I mean, if you're not informed about the technology or the trends, then any intrusion of these technologies into your life will be more significant. Perhaps I am wrong.
For Scotland I would think we're some way off a sufficiently efficient cell, given hours and angles of incidence of sunlight.
Disclaimer - I'm in Australia, about 35 degrees south, and to be candid don't really understand how even places like Germany have so much love for PVCs ;)
How do you think the fact that natural gas is guaranteed to decrease in availability / increase in cost (over the long term) compared to the guarantee solar will decrease in cost, will influence users? And how do you think the idea of users being able, or being primed, to think of themselves as producers as well as consumers will influence their decisions on power?
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#67i live off grid inside of a 500w/h peak footprint. i paid around $1000 for proper German (Schutten) panels, a charge controller suitable for them, 2 110ah "solar batteries" (lead acid usual cheapo old school stuff), and a Xantrex inverter. After nearly 1 year running a fridge, lights, computer, router, & studio monitors, I'm ready to add more battery capacity before the winter (cloudy days) and a small wind turbine.…
Do you always use your MBP connected to a power outlet? If so, try running it until its battery is drained about 50%, then plug it into your inverter and see how much power it draws. My guess is it will draw about 50-60 W. I've been using a pedal-powered generator to power my computer, phone, tablet, and LED lights for the last 5 years and have tested several laptops and other devices using it. I've found that most l…
I wonder how much inefficiency there is due to the inverter and the computer's wall transformer. Would it be better to run DC from the generator to power a dc-dc converter (which might have its own losses)?
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi. I'm the author of the original post. The amount of solar installed in the world is going to scale by more than 10x in the coming decades. There will be more than a trillion spent. If you pick the winners, investment will have huge return. Most solar companies, however, will be casualties in the fierce competition to come. The other area to look at is energy storage. More renewables will increase the demand for en…
Do you have any suggestions about good solar startups with good patents/tech/people?
The race to the bottom is more applicable to the panel manufacturers. The lowest cost producers are mostly Chinese companies, and the financial performance for these companies (ReneSola, Yingli Green Energy, Trina Solar, etc.) has been pretty terrible so far. Probably the best way to invest in solar through the stock market is to invest in a developer of solar projects. The best of these in my opinion in terms of scale and expertise is SunEdison (ticker: SUNE), and incidentally, the stock has been in free fall for various reasons over the past couple weeks, so this is probably a reasonable entry point.
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
If people see a solar thermal plant going up near their town, will it encourage or discourage them from installing PV? I don't think this will make much difference - individual PV installation is an investment decision (just like other big home improvements) based on cost of energy and subsidies. It makes some difference to how "green" people feel, but the cost matters more. It may have an effect in planning battles.…
Understood, but I find solar too ambiguous. Like when people talk about nuclear. I like the idea of fusion reactors, but steadfastly oppose fission. Solar tech has two big branches, and conflating them is something we should stop doing any time now. As to influence - I think HN types are more informed than the GP, so in our bubble it may be hard to speculate accurately on any such influence. By which I mean, if you'r…
I have a 3.8kW rated system (cost about £5k) at about 56N, and it actually produces that much on clear summer days. Currently it's grey outside and outputting about 2kW (I can ssh into the computer looking at the meter). The high latitude does mean extended summer days. Admittedly it probably wouldn't be viable without subsidy today.
I don't think individuals are very good at adapting to the long term market. If I know gas will be more expensive in 5 years, I can't do very much with that today. There's also the old "the market can stay irrational longer than you stay solvent": if I invest too early I can just as easily lose money.
In the UK, I think the general public are ahead of the media and politicians on the issue. There's a noisy anti-environmentalist and anti-windfarm contingent, but most people recognise the tradeoffs. I don't think people want to be their own producer en masse, any more than grow their own food or be their own bank, but if they can make a capital investment that saves money and produces income then you're speaking the right language to the middle class.
People might start to get vocal when gas prices go up in the UK; complaints about fuel poverty and demands for more fracking. It'll require a long period of gas being more expensive than electricity for fuel and heating for people to switch their homes over.
Re: How Cheap Can Solar Get?
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd rather pay more now for solar, than pay through the nose later for the environmental equivalent of a triple bypass surgery. That's really generous, however I think it would be the government's duty to compensate for these externalities so you don't have to pay more for solar (or not much more) than for the grid. Otherwise the environment will just stay a huge "tragedy of the commons".
The very least the governments can do is eliminate all subsidies to coal, oil and natural gas. They've had them for decades. I don't think it's healthy for a society to prop up an industry that long with subsidies, especially when it's one of the most profitable.
Could you list the subsidies you're against? All I ever find is general business items or for non-conventional fuels.