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Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

theguardian.com

51–60 of 131 posts

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#51
post #39

Besides tiling your bathroom is there any use case for this? Or is this pure for fun and gaining knowledge? Edit: The article is talking about building structures but isn't a triangle the most rigid form? And triangles are already used in building.

Can I actually tile my bathroom with tiles like this? Do any tile manufacturers make them that shape?

EDIT: I found these, at least http://www.ballerhouse.com/2010/08/19/precision-concrete-til...

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#53
post #51
post #39

Besides tiling your bathroom is there any use case for this? Or is this pure for fun and gaining knowledge? Edit: The article is talking about building structures but isn't a triangle the most rigid form? And triangles are already used in building.

Can I actually tile my bathroom with tiles like this? Do any tile manufacturers make them that shape? EDIT: I found these, at least http://www.ballerhouse.com/2010/08/19/precision-concrete-til...

They probably will.

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#54
I wish I had a bathroom to tile - I reckon this could be considered "in vogue" for the next 30 years or so, until they find a newer pentagon. Does anyone know if this can be coloured with 3 colours? Obviously 4 is possible due to the 4 colour theorem and 2 will not work due to to three faces sharing a corner.

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#55
post #23
post #5

"That same year an unlikely mathematical pioneer entered the fray: Marjorie Rice, a San Diego housewife in her 50s, who had read about James’ discovery in Scientific American. An amateur mathematician, Rice developed her own notation and method and over the next few years discovered another four types of pentagon that tile the plane. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjorie_Rice

that's awesome. Outsider math and outsider art deserve as much respect as "outsider" programming ( startups / garage hackers ) garner. Creating semi-closed communities of insiders, united by what are essentially arcane handshakes, and dismissive of value emerging outside of themselves, is really just both a narrow-mindedness that doesn't behoove innovation and also an admission of an unnecessary insecurity about the…

IMO the analogy doesn't hold up very well. Outsider art is often very good, and outsider programming seems like a weird idea (do startup hackers have less training than BigCo employees?) But that's beside the point.

If you're looking at the tiny subset of outsider science that's chosen for correctness and publication-worthiness, of course you'll be enthusiastic about it. But these people, like Marjorie Rice, aren't really facing any obstacles from the establishment! If their work has merit, they usually get a warm welcome.

The elephant in the room is that >99% of outsider science is extremely bad, and can't understand why it's bad even after repeated explanations. Pretty much all the people complaining about the scientific establishment are like "fermatists", who used to hover around math institutes to have their proofs of FLT checked. If you're not familiar with such people, I urge you to actually look at a sample of their work and form your own opinion.

After that I think you'll be less eager to throw accusations around. A scientist's life is hard enough already, without people telling her she's an insecure evil fascist for rejecting torsion fields, the EmDrive, or Time Cube.

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#56

Many of these types are basically combining two pentagons into an octagon (or even hexagon) then tiling it across the plane. For some reason, intuitively those seem more easy to me (2 * 3, 2 * 4), so that you could just generate a bunch of them, and split them in two to create tessellating pentagons? Even the example in the article can be viewed as a regularly tessellating nonagon. I don't see what's "irregular" abou…

"then tiling it across the plane": see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10046349.

"just generate a bunch of them, and split them in two"

Try splitting a 'random' polygon into a set of identical convex (regular or irregular) pentagons.

"what's "irregular" about it?": this has been answered, but for completeness: the sides and angles of the pentagons aren't all identical.

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#57

For those interested in the subject here is an interesting video about using penrose tiling for street tiling in Helsinki, Finland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxlEojkVJ0c

There's a lovely building at North Greenwich which is Penrose'd.

http://wordpress.mrreid.org/2011/02/26/penrose-tiling/ http://www.bdonline.co.uk/foa%E2%80%99s-peninsula-patterns-f...

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#58
What's the point group for the first tiling on that webpage? It's a periodic tiling (unlike a Penrose tiling, which is only quasiperiodic), so the crystallographic restriction for two dimensions says the rotation subgroup of the point group must be one of C_2, C_3, C_4 (not C_5!) or C_6:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CrystallographyRestriction.html

I can't tell by eye-balling it what the symmetry is for the first one, but its periodicity says it must be one of those. Quasicrystals with 5-fold symmetry are not exactly periodic.

There are only 17 wallpaper groups. Since this is a wallpaper, what is its group?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallpaper_group

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#59

Kudos for not using the same clickbait title The Guardian did. Journalistic integrity is dead.

For the record, I submitted the article with the original article title, as I always attempt to do. (Some articles have more than one "original" title. In doubtful cases, I read the source code of an article, to distinguish top-level headings from sharing titles from HTML titles, and choose the title that I think is most informative for a Hacker News readership.) In this case, I submitted the title from The Guardian with the "Attack on pentagon" title, and some member of the moderation team here changed it after a while. I'm gratified that this submission has received so many thoughtful comments both from mathematically trained onlookers and from amateurs at this level of mathematics like me. (The author of the original article has deep training and experience in mathematics, and is a regular mathematics columnist for The Guardian who likes word play in his column titles.)

Re: Discovery of a new irregular pentagon that can cover the plane

#60
post #26

Meta question: where can I find list of simple unsolved/undiscovered problems like these in math? It does not appear in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_m...

It might be easier to read the list of all discovered problems. Then everything else is in play.
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