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The Teflon Toxin

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Re: The Teflon Toxin

#31

Post by _delirium »

thezilch wrote: post #9

I've never understood the gravity of Teflon pans. I can never seem to keep them non-stick, whether it be because of using too high of heat or somehow scratch the damn thing. So, I got cast irons. It's trivial to keep them seasoned and thus non-stick, and they can take the beating of very high heat -- searing meats -- and any metal utensils or rough substances.

While teflon pans are the most famous household use of teflon, they don't appear to be a significant route for these compounds getting into human bodies [1]. The main route is environmental contamination of crops and sources of drinking water, not contamination during cooking or household storage. The main sources of the environmental contamination seem to be industrial discharges, and the use of firefighting foams that contain PFOA/PFOS.

[1] See the paper linked in another comment, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10046612

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#32

Post by raverbashing »

pjc50 wrote: post #25
m_eiman wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the government has the power or time to regulate the huge amounts of "chemicals" How about instead of having "government" do the testing, we instead require that anyone creating a new chemical needs to test it for safety and publish the results (and raw data) before allowing it to be sold? Seems reasonable to me that you verify that whatever you're selling isn't dangerous (or if it turns out to be dangerous, inf…

This is the EU approach (REACH: http://echa.europa.eu/regulations/reach ). It's pretty burdensome, and somewhat unevenly applied (lead has been phased out of solder, but not of batteries). The "verify your product is not dangerous" has had strange effects, as people selling hand-knitted stuffed toys in tiny quantities have to work out how to handle CE marking requirements. This kind of regulation sets an effective mi…

> This kind of regulation sets an effective minimum size on businesses.

Exactly.

I find it funny how the biggest proponents of regulation are also those who oppose big companies as well

Because regulations are a very nice way of eliminating the (smaller) competition

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#33

Post by weland »

pjc50 wrote: post #25
m_eiman wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the government has the power or time to regulate the huge amounts of "chemicals" How about instead of having "government" do the testing, we instead require that anyone creating a new chemical needs to test it for safety and publish the results (and raw data) before allowing it to be sold? Seems reasonable to me that you verify that whatever you're selling isn't dangerous (or if it turns out to be dangerous, inf…

This is the EU approach (REACH: http://echa.europa.eu/regulations/reach ). It's pretty burdensome, and somewhat unevenly applied (lead has been phased out of solder, but not of batteries). The "verify your product is not dangerous" has had strange effects, as people selling hand-knitted stuffed toys in tiny quantities have to work out how to handle CE marking requirements. This kind of regulation sets an effective mi…

Some of the unevenness is for occasionally non-obvious, but valid reasons. It's done in RoHS, too, for instance: lead is banned out of solder, but still allowed for some equipment, such as radiation shields for imaging machines.

The reason being that lead-free solder can still be used effectively. Lead-free radiation shields -- not so much.

The aim is to reduce the usage of hazardous substances to those cases where there's just no way around them, in the hope that it will make things like waste management easier.

Edit: CE marking requirements are also reasonably easy to work out. I know several one-man businesses that solved that problem without that much hassle, so -- anecdotally -- the minimum size imposed on a business is one :).

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#34

Post by [deleted] »

thezilch wrote: post #9

I've never understood the gravity of Teflon pans. I can never seem to keep them non-stick, whether it be because of using too high of heat or somehow scratch the damn thing. So, I got cast irons. It's trivial to keep them seasoned and thus non-stick, and they can take the beating of very high heat -- searing meats -- and any metal utensils or rough substances.

[deleted]

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#35

Post by [deleted] »

Htsthbjig wrote: post #19
im3w1l wrote: post #7

Tl;dr? How badly am I destroying my health by using a Teflon pan?

Now Teflon has not C8 on it as it is manufactured. You will create dangerous compounds though if your pan goes over high temperature. This could happen if for example there is no oil in the pan. I have seen housewives and cookers heat the Teflon pan without oil for evaporating the water. Big no no with Teflon. I have seen metal scrappers burning teflon pans to use the pan for something else and painting it!(with tefl…

[deleted]

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#36

Post by lumberjack »

And the settlement reached was around 0.0086 DuPont's yearly revenue to be provided for education, water treatment facilities and medical expenses of the class action members.

Is that really going to deter them from doing it again? Where is the real penalty?

http://www.hpcbd.com/Personal-Injury/DuPont-C8/C8-Class-Acti...

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#37

Post by InclinedPlane »

thezilch wrote: post #9

I've never understood the gravity of Teflon pans. I can never seem to keep them non-stick, whether it be because of using too high of heat or somehow scratch the damn thing. So, I got cast irons. It's trivial to keep them seasoned and thus non-stick, and they can take the beating of very high heat -- searing meats -- and any metal utensils or rough substances.

For casual home cooks I'd recommend hard anodized aluminum. It's an excellent non-stick surface, easily hand washable, non-toxic, fairly durable, and low cost. Really as long as you aren't constantly gouging it with metal things then it'll hold up for years and years.

Cast iron is great too though, don't get me wrong.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#38

Post by avirambm »

I highly recommend watching The Human Experiment documentary about chemicals, toxins and the chemical industry strong lobby. It's available on Netflix.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#39

Post by jacobolus »

johnm1019 wrote: post #28
rcthompson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teflon itself is pretty much inert. That's the whole point - nothing reacts with it, nothing sticks to it. The worry is about the chemicals used to manufacture it.

Can you elaborate on this for me, I found the article confusing in its usage of C8 and Teflon (which seemed interchangeable as written?). What chemicals are used to produce Teflon which are harmful?

Teflon is the trade name for PTFE, a polymer (long skinny molecule made of a chain of identical parts) with extremely low friction which is strong, has a high melting point compared to other polymers, and doesn’t react with most chemicals, making it useful as a lubricant, non-stick coating, and electrical insulator for aerospace circuitry, with a long list of other niche uses.

PTFE is stable and nontoxic at temperatures below about 250° celsius.

PFOA, a.k.a. C8, is a surfactant (“soap”) which was used in the polymerization of PTFE. (But also used for many other purposes, e.g. as an ingredient in carpet cleaners and fire-fighting foam.)

PFOA is a toxin and carcinogen which bioaccumulates and causes nasty problems for people exposed to large amounts of it.

Re: The Teflon Toxin

#40

Post by morsch »

bradgessler wrote: post #18
sanoli wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you keep them seasoned? I tried a couple of times, but couldn't get it right. Could you give me some tips?

Buy a chainmail cleaner: http://www.amazon.com/The-Ringer-Cleaner-Stainless-Chainmail... For $18 it will change your cast iron life. The idea is that after you cook, you scrub all the stuff that gets stuck to the bottom with the chainmail and some water, then wipe it off with a paper towel. You'll never have to use soap again.

Is this that much different from a brillo pad (aka metal sponge)? That's what I use on my steel and iron cookware. They're like 2 EUR for a 4-pack; each sponge lasts for a very long time.
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