Live data from Hacker News

G is for Google

googleblog.blogspot.com

591–600 of 607 posts

Re: G is for Google

#591
post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct: Class C - 0 Votes (GOOG) Class A - 1 Vote (GOOGL ~4% higher cost per share) Class B - 10 Votes (Not publicly traded)

I still can't believe that investors are willing to trust Larry and Sergey in perpetuity(same goes for Zuckerberg and there are many other corporate doing this gambit). Sure, I like all the weird sideprojects, but what happens when they decide to build a 100B Monolith on a moon? If you happen to own Class C shares, you have no say. If you own Class C and to some extent A shareholders get a raw deal. The Class B holde…

Here's my take... It's not a moral decision, it's a financing decision. Larry and Sergey (and their initial backers) made a decision to put this structure in place. Everyone is free to decide to invest or not invest in it. Conventional theory suggests that investors don't like these types of arrangements, and these provisions weigh down the price of the stock. Therefore, the original owners had to accept a smaller valuation based on this.

This isn't a morality thing, it means that the Class A common stock holder are more like bondholders (who put in money without votes) with upside, rather than full owners. But all of them were well informed about this when they put the money in.

This is not to say that we should all invest in Class A shares, just that this structure is one way of many to invest in a company, and people who don't like it can put their money elsewhere.

Re: G is for Google

#592
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alphabet is better than planets because you can always throw in more Unicode letters, while those damn astronomers took away a perfectly good planet!

I don't get it.

It's hard for a company like Sun to have a collection, a variety, a spectrum of companies, when busy-body astronomers feel compelled to reclassify your favorite planet as a "dwarf" out from under you.

http://www.cbronline.com/news/sun_microsystems_announces_plu...

But Alphabet has a long way to go beyond the 26 English letters, before they run out of funny diacritical Unicode letters with umlauts, accents, slashes, ligatures and dingbats.

Re: G is for Google

#593
post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can Class B shares be traded privately between individuals? Or do they have conditions attached (right of first refusal back to founders/company, etc)?

Shares of class B can be converted 1:1 to class A and sold.

Ahh! Very interesting if they lose all of the voting rights in the process.

Re: G is for Google

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since devs will be able to use ports of much more established languages for web programming Sure, they'll be able to use any language they like, as long as it's C or C++. :) There is currently no story for using any high level language (read: language that uses GC) like Ruby or Python as a web language by way of WebAssembly.

> There is currently no story for using any high level language (read: language that uses GC) like Ruby or Python as a web language by way of WebAssembly. Actually that's part of the whole point of WebAssembly -- as Eich put it. It's not just to speedup emscripten style ports of C/C++ programs. Eich's words: "Bottom line: with co-evolution of JS and wasm, in a few years I believe all the top browsers will sport JS en…

I understand that's his goal, but I believe actually getting there is quite a ways off and may ultimately never happen. Of course, you can never say never on the web, but going from supporting C/C++ to supporting, say, Ruby or Python is a pretty fundamental change in how the system works.

Re: G is for Google

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since devs will be able to use ports of much more established languages for web programming Sure, they'll be able to use any language they like, as long as it's C or C++. :) There is currently no story for using any high level language (read: language that uses GC) like Ruby or Python as a web language by way of WebAssembly.

If you can use C or C++, why could you not use interpreted languages (including those with GC) whose implementation is in C or C++?

GC and runtime.

A modern GC is a large, complex beast. Python, Ruby, Lua, etc. all have their own implementations of them, and those implementations are specific to the semantics of those languages. (For example, Python's early finalizers. Ruby's FFI, etc.) That's a big blob of code for you to push down the wire with your application every time the user hits your site.

Also, that GC doesn't know how to play nice with the browser's own GC. If you have an event handler that has a reference to some Ruby object that in turn has a reference to some DOM node, neither GC can trace through that path and tell when those objects can be collected. That means you get memory leaks.

On top of that, the language implementation itself is large. The Python executable on my machine is 2 MB. Do you want to add another 2 MB to your app? Is Python enough better than JS to justify forcing all of your users on their crappy mobile networks to download that before any interactivity begins on your page? What about when you start using the additional 45 MB of standard library that comes with Python?

Also, how do you make those standard libraries work in a browser? Who is going to rewrite them all to stop using the native OS libraries they currently use and instead rely on APIs that are available in JS?

That's not to say this is an insurmountable problem. But my belief is that it's a big enough headache to outweigh the benefits you would get from writing your app in another higher level language.

Now, if your language can compile to JavaScript and has a decently small runtime library, that's a different story. At that point, you're back to only one GC and relatively little overhead for your language's semantics and core libraries. It means you don't have to worry about a large existing standard library that #includes everything under the sun.

This is why I think CoffeeScript, ClojureScript, Dart, etc. are feasible. But I don't think anyone will be writing web apps in Ruby or Python anytime soon. Languages that look syntactically similar to them (Opal, Red, Pyjamas, Brython, etc.), sure. But the real deal where you can have some app that does, I don't know, "import requests" and have it actually work in a shippably-sized web app? I think that's going to be a much harder path.

It's a great goal for the WebAssembly folks to work towards, but it's an aspirational goal.

Re: G is for Google

#597
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's own canonical example of a moonshot is Android. By that definition, Orkut and Reader qualify just fine.

> Google's own canonical example of a moonshot is Android Is it? > By that definition, Orkut and Reader qualify just fine If everything is a moonshot, nothing is, etc. AFAIK both projects were just 20% time projects scaled up to three or four people[1]. A "moonshot" is obviously a wishy-washy term, but opportunity for success doesn't seem to be sufficient to call something that. [1] http://massless.org/?archive=2007/…

> Is it?

Yes. They first used the word when referring to Andy Rubin's departure from Android.

Re: G is for Google

#598
post #430

Interesting. I suppose they'd fail PG's test of owning your own .com.

I just paid $250 dollars for a 4 letter domain today (igzi.com) after that post, and now that rule is broken? Today stinks.

I'll buy it from you for $20 if you want to get out while the market is tanking.

Re: G is for Google

#599
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how Cisco's CEO is not Indian.

how is it funny ? Not getting you

Cisco has the stereotype (at least here in the South Bay) that it has almost only Indian employees. There is also the idea that since Cisco hired so many Indians, it is now no longer considered an American company (I don't seem to be able to find the link anymore). Finally, there is the rumor that Indians only hire Indians. So after all these stereotypes you would think Cisco would have an Indian CEO.

Here are some links: https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-bias-among-Indians-of-hir...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1831365/posts

Re: G is for Google

#600
Great question now that GOOG/GOOGL is on the spotlight: Why should any investor pay a multiple (expensive, by the way) and get exposure to Google Ventures/Google Capital/Google's other crazy ideas, when he/she can just invest in Sequoia, A16Z, KKR, and other VC, growth equity, or private equity managers at book value?
Post reply on HN