Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#231

Post by mikegioia » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 12:48 PM UTC

couchand wrote: post #161

mikegioia wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if there's any solution or if privacy is just a remnant of the past. This always irritates me when I see it (not specific to you). It's not a remnant of the past and there is of course a solution! The solution is trading some of the conveniences you think you need. The solution is for once trying something other than what you're used to. The reason why you (and everyone else who thinks this way) feel the…

Shout out for the N900. I've said for years I'd pay handily for an updated model. Your comment reminded me to check back on the Neo900 project, and it's still chugging along. Looks like they've started accepting pre-orders on the site.

Yea, it's moving slower than I want but they're accepting pre-orders (half-payments) and I think they will have a few working prototypes at CCC this month.

It's frustrating because there's no definitive end-date but they are much much further along than most thought.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#232

Post by scholia » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 12:50 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #221

scholia wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The new business model, starting with giving Windows 10 away for free There isn't a new business model, and Microsoft is not giving Windows 10 away for free. What it is offering is a free upgrade to Windows 10 to people who have paid for Windows 7 or 8. This isn't really any different from iOS and Android users getting free upgrades on devices they have also paid for. It's what people expect. > Finally, for most us…

You have just stated that there isn't a new business model, and then immediately described in considerable detail a dramatic change where lots of people get a free new version of the OS (which has not happened before) and that new version is no longer a traditional desktop OS like previous versions of Windows but instead a new kind of thing that is about being cross-platform, cloud-friendly, mobile-first, service-dri…

It's not a change in Windows 10's business model. It's still a paid-for operating system.

> that new version is no longer a traditional desktop OS like previous versions of Windows

It's no longer a traditional desktop OS, but that change is not new to Windows 10. It was already the case with Windows 8.

> You also glossed over all the spyware and the ads that you can pay^Wsubscribe to remove even running basic software locally on your own system

Not really. Windows Store apps behave just like other people's store apps. It's exactly in line with the current culture of "free". I'd guess that Microsoft doesn't like it any more than you do, but thinks it needs to become like Android to prosper in a world that's averse for paying for stuff, or even thinks that paying people to write code is evil.

Windows 10 is designed for people who aren't interested in computing and don't want to be bothered with having to maintain their PC.

There's certainly a change in the technology approach, but the idea of developing point releases may have been sub-optimal for five or 10 years. The idea with Windows 10 is to use Big Data from actual usage to drive continuous improvements. Exactly like Gmail, Facebook etc.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#233

Post by mikegioia » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 12:51 PM UTC

ptx wrote: post #167

mikegioia wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you hear that? I'm unaware and couldn't find anything about it.

It's an official feature: https://youtu.be/H9zwf0VMVDI https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2012/11/28/mozilla-invests-in-... http://everything.me/about/

I mean, you linked a press release from 2012 for a partnership with Everything.me, and an Indian Mozilla video from 2014 about adaptive search which doesn't mention anything about that. I'm not saying FF is innocent in data-sharing, but at this point you're spreading FUD around. To make a claim like that, you need something way more definitive!

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#234

Post by tychuz » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 12:53 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #139

Another bad day for Microsoft. Another good day for linux.

You mean Apple, we're talking about desktop OS here - new Windows Server is not released yet.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#235

Post by redcalx » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 1:00 PM UTC

nathanaldensr wrote: post #230

The following fix worked for me. I don't see any outbound traffic on Fiddler when typing searches in the Start menu or when actually running the search. Granted, Microsoft needs to make this MUCH easier to do; the VAST majority of Windows users have no idea what group policies are. 1. Run gpedit.msc 2. Navigate to Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Search 3. Set the State to Enabled fo…

> I don't see any outbound traffic on Fiddler

Be aware that software can choose to not use a system configure proxy. It's a good tool to use, but absence of traffic in fiddler is not a definitive result, not least because it's tracking http traffic only. Wireshark is probably the next best option.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#236

Post by uptown » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 1:01 PM UTC

gnufrra wrote: post #89

blackbeard wrote: post #25

I'm starting to think I need to worry about things getting out of my firewall more than things getting in.

On my Mac I use Little Snitch to monitor outbound connections and I love it. I haven't found an equivalent simple and lightweight application for Windows yet.

Do you actively block then grant-access to everything, or just periodically check what's happening? I've tried the active filter before, but found it to be very disruptive to my typical workflow.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#237

Post by sigzero » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 1:09 PM UTC

RexRollman wrote: post #98

chatmasta wrote: post #34

This also happens on iOS with spotlight. As far as I can tell there's no way to turn it off. Source: MITM your iOS traffic. Sidenote -- a possibly unforeseen side effect of end to end encryption everywhere is that it makes it far more difficult to man in the middle your traffic and hold companies accountable for their privacy policies.

iOS does tell you have to turn it off but the user has to notice a small notice on the Spotlight control panel. Same with OS X. I believe this kind is unethical as Apple knows that most people won't change the default settings.

There is nothing unethical about it. It would be if there was no way to turn it off.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#238

Post by sigzero » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 1:12 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #204

blinkingled wrote: post #19

It's the new norm apparently - everyone is doing this. Apple gives OS X away but nobody has yet got the memo that you are becoming the product. (Yosemite does exactly that by default - you can disable it though.)

I am curious how you think Spotlight web suggestions would work without sending data to Apple. Do you expect your laptop to be crawling the internet ?

If you like spotlight web suggestions you don't turn it off. That is your decision and Apple provides a way to do it.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#239

Post by nathanaldensr » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 1:19 PM UTC

redcalx wrote: post #235

nathanaldensr wrote: post #230

The following fix worked for me. I don't see any outbound traffic on Fiddler when typing searches in the Start menu or when actually running the search. Granted, Microsoft needs to make this MUCH easier to do; the VAST majority of Windows users have no idea what group policies are. 1. Run gpedit.msc 2. Navigate to Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Search 3. Set the State to Enabled fo…

> I don't see any outbound traffic on Fiddler Be aware that software can choose to not use a system configure proxy. It's a good tool to use, but absence of traffic in fiddler is not a definitive result, not least because it's tracking http traffic only. Wireshark is probably the next best option.

Of course this is true, but the OP's screenshot is a Fiddler screenshot. It's safe to say the calls in question do use the proxy configuration.

For completeness, I ran Wireshark and didn't see any outbound HTTP (or otherwise abnormal) traffic while searching from the Start menu.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#240

Post by ionised » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 1:27 PM UTC

scholia wrote: post #226

ionised wrote: post #179

Yeah I noticed this and was very annoyed. I use Comodo firewall and have basically set up a load of rules to prevent phoning home of any kind except to check updates.

Does that mean you're blocking CDNs? What's the effect on performance?

Can't say I've noticed any issues.

That said, I'm not using the Windows Store, Cortana, ModernUI apps, OneDrive or even a Microsoft Account at all so your mileage may vary.