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How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

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Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#121

Post by [deleted] »

VonGuard wrote: post #58
woah wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some strange contradictions here. There's a huge overlap between burning man culture and tech culture. Part of the sentiment against burning man is because of this. The world may not be as simple as you think.

Yes, there is a lot of overlap. But there used to be, too. Burning Man was the place where the weird and the tech came together. These days, with $600+ tickets, it is just a rich kids place to go. But there are still all those warehouses full of weirdos that burn and remain in the Bay Area. Just because Burning Man is now frequented by rich frat people doesn't make it too much less weird and anti-puritanical, the way…

[deleted]

Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#122

Post by peterwwillis »

The author is confused because they think a 'hacker' is a tangible thing. It isn't. It's an idea without shape, a calling without purpose.

The prototypical self-described hacker is an insecure person who attaches themselves to a romantic, powerful identity in order that they might attain these qualities themselves. But the power of the hacker is that of a magician: conjuring tricks in order to amaze the public and seem mysterious, powerful, skilled.

Here you see a normal web server with a firewall. It's totally secure. Nothing up my sleeve, as you can see. But wait... Alacazam! Now I have a remote shell!

If the author wanted to 'resist' traditional economic institutions they could become a circus performer. But then they couldn't fulfill the true 'fetish', which is that anti-authoritarian action through intellectual skill and craftiness is a pursuit to be proud of; one that the audience should revere.

The fact that this author's lofty rejection of traditional economic forces packaged in a sexy identity also has the ability to provide them a very comfortable living is, it would seem, totally accidental.

Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#123

Post by daveloyall »

sanderjd wrote: post #110
daveloyall wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. When I first came here, I was shocked how often the comments about some cool tech would be focused on how to monetize it, how to commoditize it. After a while, I just accepted as fact the existence of a large contingent of "hipster web 2.0 wanks" (well, that's the tag I use internally). But today I'll start an experiment. I'll adjust the internal tag to recognize them by their true name. An old name... Posers.…

It would certainly be more charitable to think of "them" as what they really are: people who, just like you, are doing their best to figure out a path for themselves through a mystifying world. At least, I know that's what I am doing, while also being quite sure you think I'm a hipster web 2.0 wank poser.

I appreciate this pushback against my use of "them". I appreciate your astute description of what it is like to be a person.

...Forgive me, if you want, when I contradict myself!

I think there's some value in cliques. I was reminded of this recently when some buddies and I started an every-other-Sunday RPG group. (Heroes Unlimited, FWIW.)

The conversations that come up in that group are really great. The common ground that we share[0] allows me to really get down to brass tacks with ease. ...More easily than I can do here!

Granted, wishing that my public-news-and-commentary-website would be more like my-four-man-paper-and-dice-gaming-club is downright unreasonable. That being said, the fact remains that there are little corners of the web (net!) here and there where discussion about changing the world via tech won't get sidetracked by some perverse anti-SJW point-hunting BS. Wait, ARE THERE? :(

0: physics, respect for the rules (of the game/physics/conversation), puns, beer.

Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#124

Post by bcg1 »

This article is bound to ruffle some feathers around here.

The writing is spot on but will cause some cognitive dissonance for some as the words ring true but conflict with the structures they have set up in their minds and in their lives.

I think that the commercialization can be good though... the culture gets to live on and propagate when there is a way for hackers to make money doing what they love. Any successful counterculture is bound to be co-opted and exploited, but that doesn't mean that true participants in that culture shouldn't be able to subsist off of it.

Author makes the comparison to hip-hop culture which I think is a good one... there is a highly commercialized side of that culture in rap music, but there are still "underground" emcees not to mention deejays, beatboxers, graffiti writers, and others who are able to build up their culture due in no small part to the money coming in. Of course, to maintain a good balance, you need keepers-of-the-faith like the author who are willing to smack down arrogant upstarts who think they can piss all over and redefine the culture they claim to hail from.

Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#125

Post by m-i-l »

The countercultural trickster has been pressed into the service of the preppy tech entrepreneur class

Concern has been expressed that the new generation of artists (musicians, actors etc.) in the UK seem to primarily come from upper middle class backgrounds[0]. I have started to wonder if the same could be said of the tech startup scene, e.g. in London. This could be due to the increasing difficulties someone would have living on a period of effectively zero income, unless they had the backing of rich parents.

[0] Could cite lots of articles, but http://www.standard.co.uk/business/markets/confessions-from-... is just one recent one.

Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#126

Post by nostrademons »

gaius wrote: post #90
gluelogic wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ignoring what other people think is cool. In the end, it really isn't though. It is a bad thing when subcultures are overrun by people who did not come to it organically. What I mean by that is at a certain point, members of a subculture gain a perceived glamour, which incentivizes outsiders to come in for superficial reasons. This dilutes the subculture's original ethos, and if it continues long enough it totally…

members of a subculture gain a perceived glamour, which incentivizes outsiders to come in for superficial reasons It has a real cost to the original members, in terms of their loss of immediate credibility. You see a guy with sailor tattoos. Did he serve in the Fleet, does that speak to his work ethic and skill with a chart or a diesel engine? Or does he work in advertising and drink soy lattes? You see a girl with t…

The genuine people don't care what other people think of them and don't feel a need to "prove" anything. That's what makes them genuine.

Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#127

Post by pharrington »

danielweber wrote: post #78
andyl wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a summary? tldr My summary: the article is a cultural-marxist parable. The victim is the hacker. The oppressor is the yuppie. In olden days the hacker lived in a sort of eden, but now the oppressor has trapped the hacker in webs of capitalist bondage.

I really worry about these people trying to free me from a high income career and telling me it's for my own good.

What I want is for a common person to not need to pursue a high income career in order to support themselves and their loved ones, persue their hobbies/education/passions, and stay culturally engaged. The cultural necessity of careerism limits the general options available and accelerates the course of the dominant culture, which as we know, primarily consolidates wealth and attacks sub-scale forms of ownership. We need pervasive ownership.

You may not need freeing, but I certainly do.

Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#128

Post by ryanSrich »

kimdouglasmason wrote: post #118
ryanSrich wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portland is slowly losing it's edge. I say slowly because the wages here are silly low so that does keep out a lot of the yuppies the article is referring to (although many will come here and take advantage of that). I've only been here for a little over a year but I've seen the city change very much in that short amount of time. Old abandon buildings are now apartment complexes for tech kids. In May of 2014 there wa…

"at least I didn't move here from California" Yup. You being born in a state that is not California and moving to Portland makes you very superior to those living in Portland but born in California. You should put on your very superior hat and feel good about your total authenticity and unquestionable non-yuppiedom.

I was half joking.

The other serious half was in reference to Bay Area yuppies moving here and subversively driving up the cost of pretty much everything.

Re: How yuppies hacked the hacker ethos

#129

Post by WaxProlix »

_delirium wrote: post #108
reb wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lately "Cultural-Marxist" has become shorthand for anyone holding beliefs even slightly adjacent to "the rich/powerful are evil and they're corrupting the pure and poor/powerless" or "there are two kinds of people: the oppressed and the oppressors". Whether this characterization of the article is fair or those beliefs about the world are true are both reasonable questions worthy of consideration. Anyone looking for a…

I've more commonly found "cultural Marxism" used regarding social issues. People who believe in the theory allege that Marxism has expanded into the cultural realm (rather than focusing on economics and class), as part of a long strategy to undermine western society. For example: immigration is alleged to be a cultural-Marxist strategy to undermine the nation-state, abortion & gay marriage are cultural-Marxist strate…

How is class not a part of culture?
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