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Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

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Re: Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

#11

Post by TeMPOraL »

nota_bene wrote: post #10
TeMPOraL wrote: post #8

Well, being surprised that "quantum physics is everywhere" is like being surprised every computer program runs on machine code. Surely you didn't think transistors run JavaScript natively? Quantum physics isn't a weird part of reality, it's the reality (or, to be precise, a low-level model of it).

And quantum physics will stop being weird once we get its rule set (lightning and thunder had God status, once).

Exactly. It's not quantum physics that is weird, it's our intuitions that are wrong (since we never had to explicitly deal with nanoscale before XX century).

Re: Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

#12

Post by techbio »

titzer wrote: post #4

"The colour of your eyes, the shape of your nose, your intelligence or propensity for disease are encoded at the quantum level." Uh, nope.

It seems like a science writer's scheme to tie theoretical physics to what "the informed reader" may have familiarity or interest in, ie. DNA, putting Schrodinger and Crick in the same orbit.

Technically speaking, molecular interactions must rely on quantum effects, therefor the encoding does exist at the quantum level, as opposed to the applesauce level.

But this article is not really about genetics or applesauce.

Re: Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

#13

Post by sklogic »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #11
nota_bene wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And quantum physics will stop being weird once we get its rule set (lightning and thunder had God status, once).

Exactly. It's not quantum physics that is weird, it's our intuitions that are wrong (since we never had to explicitly deal with nanoscale before XX century).

Our intuition is so poor that it even gets many classical mechanics problems wrong. Most hilariously the various resonance-related things (my favourite practical example is a pendulum swinging upwards, which looks like pure magic).

Intuition is also very poor in dealing with nonlinear things (think soliton waves and all that stuff). So, trusting an intuition is always wrong and intuition got no place in science anyway, not just in nanoscale.

Re: Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

#14

Post by sklogic »

ild wrote: post #3

That claim about DNA, mutations and quantum effects - well it makes the paper less credible. DNA and its replication and mutations are largely non-quantum and it is also not true at all that in DNA every matters; minor alterations of the do not produce invalid code.

Protein folding is a quantum thing indeed. And folding matters no less than the amino acids sequence.

Re: Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

#15

Post by bdg »

techbio wrote: post #12
titzer wrote: post #4

"The colour of your eyes, the shape of your nose, your intelligence or propensity for disease are encoded at the quantum level." Uh, nope.

It seems like a science writer's scheme to tie theoretical physics to what "the informed reader" may have familiarity or interest in, ie. DNA, putting Schrodinger and Crick in the same orbit. Technically speaking, molecular interactions must rely on quantum effects, therefor the encoding does exist at the quantum level, as opposed to the applesauce level. But this article is not really about genetics or applesauce.

To me the "quantum level" distinction is the issue. This is like saying you need to use Newtonian calculations for one set of speeds and Einstein's for another as if reality "switched gears" like a race car. The quantum level is the only level, all distinctions are purely in the mind.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/pc/quantum_explanations/

Re: Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

#16

Post by 4Data »

sklogic wrote: post #13
TeMPOraL wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's not quantum physics that is weird, it's our intuitions that are wrong (since we never had to explicitly deal with nanoscale before XX century).

Our intuition is so poor that it even gets many classical mechanics problems wrong. Most hilariously the various resonance-related things (my favourite practical example is a pendulum swinging upwards, which looks like pure magic). Intuition is also very poor in dealing with nonlinear things (think soliton waves and all that stuff). So, trusting an intuition is always wrong and intuition got no place in science anywa…

Can you give an example of a pendulum swinging upwards? Is that an inverted pendulum? [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oGYCxkgnHQ

Re: Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

#19

Post by deepnet »

The articles author, Johnjo Mcfadden and his collaborator, Jim Al Khalili, are proposing a new scientific discipline, Quantum Biology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_theories_of_quantu...

Here is McFaddens and Khalili's 1999 paper A quantum mechanical model of adaptive behaviour http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Johnjoe_Mcfadden/publica...

It is an interesting new field and much more scholarly than the OP article allows.

They have a book which goes in depth and Jim has an excellent BBC tv show presenting the key ideas.

Here are Khalili's Royal Institution lecture, the book and tv show, which cover the same material in depth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwgQVZju1ZM

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Edge-Coming-Quantum-Biology/dp/...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04v85cj

The IAS 2012 workshop on Quantum Biology has a number of presentations:

http://www.ias.surrey.ac.uk/workshops/quantumbiology/report....

Here is Jim's 2012 presentation on the role of Quantum tunneling in Adaptive Genetic mutation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iujZr42Aho4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iujZr42Aho4

Re: Quantum weirdness is everywhere in life

#20

Post by n4r9 »

rogerbraun wrote: post #17

It's always a shame when the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics is presented as how reality works. Most of the perceived weirdness of QM comes from the leaps of faith required to make the Copenhagen interpretation work.

There's a lot of truth in that, and the orthodox interpretation is indeed riddled with incoherence. But what fascinates me is that after so much effort, the quantum community seems to be further away than ever from coming to a consensus on interpreting the theory. Every proposed interpretation does away with some foundational issue, yet introduces another in the process.
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