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Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

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201–210 of 229 posts

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would stop any of such highly intelligent from eventually co opting the structures of today and doing something short term orthogonal (maybe even beneficial to the "share and status"), long term oppositional to some of those in power, if say, they reject to continue attending an ivy/elite league university after they attend for a couple of years after getting a scholarship, and realize that they can pursue "othe…

This is actually a very good question. There are really a few possible answer to this. The main one is that those clever people that can make it into the ruling class, but choose to reject it, are not a worry to the ruling class since these people are not going to organise a revolution from outside. If you are not interested in ruling then you are not a worry to those in power. More fundamentally most very smart peop…

I'm curious about the ideas that people have when they speak of such subjects, can you possibly enumerate on the other answers that you had in mind besides the main one you listed?

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#202
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morality aside, the US government acted in its own self-interest by protecting industries within its borders. It is likely had any major US automakers been liquidated, more wealth would have been destroyed than created. Extending the organism metaphor, forest fires can be a naturally occurring healthy event that promotes renewal. Sometimes, a fire will burn with enough intensity that the forest itself is destroyed. S…

Politics also needs consideration. If other countries protect their industries and US does not what will happen?

Then they'll be exposed to systemic risk and we won't.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of money is completely determined by fed actions and allowing it to drift in detrimental value paths would be the farthest thing from respecting the markets. Economy wide "malinvestment" is not a thing. It entails that a person living off of others is more productive than a person working. It's nonsense. Although money should be just an intermediary tool for trade and negotiation, an artificial asset that i…

> Economy wide "malinvestment" is not a thing. It entails that a person living off of others is more productive than a person working. It's nonsense. At microeconomics malinvestiment happens all the time, and you do want it to fail. Otherwise we'd be still sending typewriter created letters though horsemail. Now, you are proposing that at the macro-level it does not exist? How is it so? Is malinvestiment one of those…

It's because at the micro level, investments can be sub-optimal when they could be replaced by better more productive investments.

At the aggregate level, the alternative to investment is just economic inactivity. At this level, turning investment into fiat means stopping economic value creation and preventing economy value retention.

Unless you really believe that the unemployed would be destroying more than 100% of the value of the investment they need to work, it's an incorrect assumption.

I think the erroneous assumption that Austrians make is that they think investments are not worth it in the private markets if they have negative returns.

That is incorrect, stores of value can be useful as long as they retain part of their value, that is unless their returns are above -100%. You don't throw out a bag of apple because one of them may rot early. Idle fiat has a return of -100% to the aggregate economy over the time that it is made idle. On the aggregate, it's just paper it doesn't actually carry value forward. It is a claim on value created by others who have not promised to create anything. If you had instead invested the money into stock or a bond, something that enables production, even if you would only have generated -50% returns, you would have added much more value to the aggregate than if the savings would have been kept as idle fiat reserves.

It is crucial that fiat does not price good short term investments out of the market every time the risk adjusted market rates go below -2%. -2% can be an artificially high rate that puts the private market in a gridlock.

Negative returns may well be the natural state for stores of value. Before financial systems existed, almost all investments, had negative returns if you didn’t put work and energy into them. The only way you had to store value was to accumulate stuff, buildings or land. All options either had high maintenance costs, were subject to risk of damage from natural causes and theft, were very volatile or required hard labor to get production out of.

Even in societies with good financial systems, getting risk free, hassle free, positive real returns has been difficult for most of history. This probably reflects the laws of thermodynamics that tell us that things tend to decay without work and energy put into them.

The 20th century was probably the most notable exception. Because of unprecedented demographic and technological growth, positive risk free returns were easy to find. This however, may not continue forever, particularly amidst a aging and retiring population.

Money should not be made an artificial government backstop for stores of value as this destroys the total amount of real wealth in the economy and replaces it with pieces of paper or numbers in accounts. The saving vehicle of last resort should be for people to stockpile stuff they will need in the future (which incidentally creates job because this stuff needs to be produced) not accumulation of fiat.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#204
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter example is Iceland who told the banks to get lost and is the only European country who's economy is now ahead of where it was in 2008. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/three-charts...

Ireland, the example shunned by krugmanites, has followed the IMF/ECB advice and is in better position than it was in 2008.

I see some mixed data on Ireland.

A quick search shows an unemployment rate that just crossed below 10% in April. From 2000-2008, the unemployment rate ranged 4-5% (with very high unemployment in the 80s and 90s). http://www.tradingeconomics.com/embed/?s=ieuert&v=2015080617...

Also, government debt to GDP rose steadily and is near historic highs, although has recently begun to fall: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/embed/?s=irldebt2gdp&v=20150...

By which measure is Ireland in a better position than 2008?

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Paris is quite smart, she just plays an idiot for the masses. Even if she was an idiot, it proves nothing. There are plenty of dumb rich as even with assortative mating your children will be normally distributed, just from a higher mean.

>>Actually Paris is quite smart, she just plays an idiot for the masses. People said the same thing about George W. Bush. We have yet to see any evidence for that assertion, both for him and Hilton. >>There are plenty of dumb rich as even with assortative mating your children will be normally distributed, just from a higher mean. Quite a bold claim. I'd like to see a citation.

Like another poster said, GWB scored 1206 in his SAT - that is below the 80th percentile. An 80th percentile IQ score is 113 - it will not get you into Yale or Harvard unless you are both a legacy admit as well as a son of a millionaire.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Economy wide "malinvestment" is not a thing. It entails that a person living off of others is more productive than a person working. It's nonsense. At microeconomics malinvestiment happens all the time, and you do want it to fail. Otherwise we'd be still sending typewriter created letters though horsemail. Now, you are proposing that at the macro-level it does not exist? How is it so? Is malinvestiment one of those…

It's because at the micro level, investments can be sub-optimal when they could be replaced by better more productive investments. At the aggregate level, the alternative to investment is just economic inactivity. At this level, turning investment into fiat means stopping economic value creation and preventing economy value retention. Unless you really believe that the unemployed would be destroying more than 100% of…

Sorry, but you stated the inexistence of bad investments on aggregate, and you support that extraordinary claim with a rant about stores of value?

Anyway, that rant makes no sense. You can't just informally move from real and nominal values at will, as you can't claim that in a population, if everybody lose any amount less than 100% of their wealth, everybody would get richer. Or better, well, you can claim it, you just can not make it real.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super low rates are bad all the time. They allow many things to exist that shouldn't, while the viable businesses have to pay higher prices for all their inputs. When you have cheap money, more people think marginal investments now make a lot of sense. But if you create too many online dog food companies, eventually most of them have to be shut down. It would have been better to allow an organic recovery. And remove…

>And remove the impediments to hiring. What're those?

[deleted]

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#208
post #184

The concept that you can "own" property and charge "rent" for it has been an economic drain on the world. When a cash exchange or transfer is made, it is usually for a product, aka GDP. There is no GDP involved with paying rent. A landlord is someone who can sit on his ass and live off of the GDP the tenant generates in the form of "rent" while offering no GDP back to the economy. The landlord is essentially a parasi…

I would love it if the person who downvoted this anonymously would chime in as to why. Because this is exactly what a landlord is.

I can see why. This argument goes beyond simply just landlords and rent into a critique about the dark sides of capitalism itself.

In capitalism you can not only own land as an landlord but you can also own labor. Someone who owns the corporation, can sit on the profits, dividends, and growth without producing actual GDP himself. It's very similar to the landlord situation. The owner of the corporation essentially sucks the lifeblood of the work output generated by employees while doing no work himself. Y-Combinator at its very core is a product of this system, hence the possible downvotes.

Capitalism is great, but landlords and freeloaders who get richer and richer without producing any GDP themselves is a huge negative attribute that is intrinsic to capitalism. Ironically, it is the hopeful opportunity of becoming a freeloader that drives the risk-taking entrepreneurial qualities which in turn make capitalism so effective.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes even if you have the genetic potential for high intelligence environment can destroy it. What counts as a good environment is pretty basic though - the vast majority of people grow up in an environment which won't kill their genetic potential. What I wrote about the means is correct. Over the population the mean intelligence of the offspring is equal to the mean intelligence of the parents. Of course with individ…

Ok re: IQ. Re: means, I still can't parse what you wrote the first time and I'm a native speaker. will be with ?

What I wrote was a bit dense and extracting what I was try to say was not easy (this is bad writing on my part). What I was trying to say is the average intelligence of the children is the same as the average intelligence, but the actual values of the children will be scattered and this scattering will show a normal (bell curve) distribution. Putting this into numbers if the father has an IQ (g these days) of 110 and the mother an IQ of 150 then their children will be expected to have an average IQ of 130, but their actual IQs might be 115, 140, 160, and 100.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because at the micro level, investments can be sub-optimal when they could be replaced by better more productive investments. At the aggregate level, the alternative to investment is just economic inactivity. At this level, turning investment into fiat means stopping economic value creation and preventing economy value retention. Unless you really believe that the unemployed would be destroying more than 100% of…

Sorry, but you stated the inexistence of bad investments on aggregate, and you support that extraordinary claim with a rant about stores of value? Anyway, that rant makes no sense. You can't just informally move from real and nominal values at will, as you can't claim that in a population, if everybody lose any amount less than 100% of their wealth, everybody would get richer. Or better, well, you can claim it, you j…

Bad investment compared to what? Idle excess fiat is worth about -100% to the aggregate economy over the time it is kept idle. Manipulating it so that it stores value for an individual at a real rate of -2% when private market stores of value's risk adjusted real returns are lower than that is a market distortion that transforms people's savings into a huge loss to the economy.

I am the one being meticulous about the implications of real vs nominal. In particular I am saying that people's saving should be tied to something real by making sure they end up in something backed by real economic activity like stocks, bonds, actual stuff or credible promises of production of actual stuff.

You on the other hand don't seem to see the different implications between fiat stores of value and real value tied to production and production capacity. You have no problem if people's savings end up as purely nominal idle fiat without any real intrinsic value tied to them, if people's savings accumulate as pure government created claims on production from other people who have not promised to fulfill those claims.

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