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GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

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Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#111

Post by josteink »

DanBC wrote: post #109
josteink wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have missed the memo, but according to new wave feminism, the word "meritocracy" represents discrimination because you don't give special treatment to people based on sex, ethnicity etc. I'm not kidding, and Github had adopted this view as well. [1] Among many, this CoC is seen as a continuation of this largely feminist agenda. And we don't think it belong here. Open source I'd apolitical, meaning you can avo…

Meritocracy is sexist because it's bullshit. We know it's bullshit from the resumé experiments or the blinded orchestra auditions etc.

So your argument is that because it's hard (impossible?) to achieve a true meritocracy the term and goal itself is "bullshit" and should be dismissed?

Should we apply the same standards to other common things? Equality? Democracy? Justice?

See how that works? Yeah, it doesn't. Your argument is a non-argument.

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#112

Post by johnny22 »

return0 wrote: post #75
voltagex_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Edit: you edited that comment from a single line since I posted this. To elaborate: I think that codes of conduct can be very very useful, especially in resolving disputes or setting community standards. I don't think it's driven out of distrust. High profile harassment on GitHub is not good for GitHub, or the open source community as a whole.

So is github trying to become the defacto community leader of all open source software? I was under the impression there are many different teams in there that had different standards. Does open source even need a universal nanny? Isnt the idea of free software completely opposite to this? It would make sense if github did this in response to persistent issues with the community, but by doing it pre-emptively it seem…

an opt-in code of conduct per project doesn't seem to be universal nannying

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#113

Post by DanBC »

josteink wrote: post #111
DanBC wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meritocracy is sexist because it's bullshit. We know it's bullshit from the resumé experiments or the blinded orchestra auditions etc.

So your argument is that because it's hard (impossible?) to achieve a true meritocracy the term and goal itself is "bullshit" and should be dismissed? Should we apply the same standards to other common things? Equality? Democracy? Justice? See how that works? Yeah, it doesn't. Your argument is a non-argument.

No, my argument is that people who claim to be operating a meritocracy need to be aware of a bunch of biases or they risk being sexist[1] whilst also dismissing any accusations of sexism.

[1] etc

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#114

Post by johnny22 »

return0 wrote: post #86
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #3

Looking through some of the issues on that repo, the amount of bad faith people have in the very idea of a code of conduct is astonishing. Not to mention the sheer ignorance of issues affecting minorities within the tech community (seriously, Jon Stewart could have had a weeks worth of material). Sure, the wording of the code of conduct wasn't perfect, but it'd be much nicer if people wanted to see it improved in goo…

What about people who disagree and are not willing to follow the CoC? Is it preferable to turn some brilliant (but very ill-tempered; so many of them exist) mind away from a project because they are not our favourite? In the end, is it the software that matters or the 'community'?

I've avoided software because of the community before. Usually there is some other equivalent software with a better community.

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#115

Post by johnny22 »

anon3_ wrote: post #79
sagichmal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I set up my web browser to automatically change > "political correctness" to "treating people with > respect" https://twitter.com/byronclarknz/status/628702214391902208 If you use the phrase "social outrage" or "social justice" as a pejorative, you're part of the problem :)

> If you use the phrase "social outrage" or "social justice" as a pejorative, you're part of the problem :) The first thing is to understand it's a problem to simply prima facie discount someone. It is outrage at social things. 9/10 of the people complaining are just trolls who don't even code. The rest are beta males who emasculate themselves playing apart in it. 5 years from now - they're going to risk losing too m…

I don't think this concept of "beta male" even exists in reality. Seems to be just a way for a certain group of men to excuse themselves from making active positive changes in their own lives.

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#116

Post by maxerickson »

ehvatum wrote: post #97

This section of the "code of conduct" is extremely odd without some context: > Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. We will not act on complaints regarding: > ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia’ > Reasonable communication of boundaries, such as “leave me alone,” “go away,” or “I’m not discussing this with you” >…

To me that section reads like the person who wrote it recently had an encounter with a sea lion.

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#117

Post by return0 »

johnny22 wrote: post #112
return0 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is github trying to become the defacto community leader of all open source software? I was under the impression there are many different teams in there that had different standards. Does open source even need a universal nanny? Isnt the idea of free software completely opposite to this? It would make sense if github did this in response to persistent issues with the community, but by doing it pre-emptively it seem…

an opt-in code of conduct per project doesn't seem to be universal nannying

Oops i didn't know it was opt-in. Although with github recommending it it will become the defacto code, and it's likely to be mandatory a few years down the road.

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#118

Post by return0 »

johnny22 wrote: post #114
return0 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about people who disagree and are not willing to follow the CoC? Is it preferable to turn some brilliant (but very ill-tempered; so many of them exist) mind away from a project because they are not our favourite? In the end, is it the software that matters or the 'community'?

I've avoided software because of the community before. Usually there is some other equivalent software with a better community.

I was referring to the CoC , not the community.

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#119

Post by [deleted] »

jlarocco wrote: post #84
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an employment environment, that is clearcut sexual harassment. Wait, really? I've never posted it myself, but textual descriptions like "[hug]" as a way of expressing gratitude or solidarity are common and mundane in plenty of communities. Now, sure, cluttering technical discussions with stuff like this isn't preferable. To call it "clearcut sexual harassment" is ludicrous and completely devalues the term in quest…

> Wait, really? I've never posted it myself, but textual descriptions like "[hug]" as a way of expressing gratitude or solidarity are common and mundane in plenty of communities. I'd bet none of the communities you've seen it is a workplace.

[deleted]

Re: GitHub Puts Open Code of Conduct on Pause

#120

Post by Globrazu »

zxcvcxz wrote: post #43
dmart wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the sake of discussion, this is the part that people seem to be taking the most issue with: Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. We will not act on complaints regarding: - ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia’ - Reasonable communication of boundaries, such as “leave me alone,” “go away,” or “I’m not discussing…

How can people still deny that this isn't clear discrimination against straight white males? The PC police talk about all the "coded racism" that they see all day but they can't tell that this is coded racism? They should just say what they mean: If you're a straight white man it's okay to treat you like shit.

"They should just say what they mean: If you're a straight white man it's okay to treat you like shit."

Several GitHub employees would agree: https://github.com/todogroup/opencodeofconduct/pull/17

https://twitter.com/rachelmyers/status/629981737121021953

https://twitter.com/agelender/status/629080326736773120 https://twitter.com/agelender/status/573560084837498880

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