Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer • Hacker News Board

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#11

Post by ahmedbaracat » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 5:51 PM UTC

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #7

thearn4 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game development seems to be one of the most competitive and least forgiving corners of the larger software development industry. A long time ago, games are what originally motivated me to learn to program. But some point along the way, I came to believe (whether true or false) that game development was really not a very enticing career path, both in terms of compensation and technical & creative challenges open to s…

> both in terms of compensation and technical & creative challenges open to solve Can you name other "career paths" where are more technical & creative challenges open to solve? I am working on an indie game project right now and worked for a big corporation in a total different sector before and I must say, that when you talk about compensation, you might be right (at least, when you are working in a company), ... .…

From my experience, I think compensation might be more prevalent when you are indie because you are less likely to have a stable income compared to working in a company. But I may be wrong :)

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#12

Post by PythonicAlpha » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

ahmedbaracat wrote: post #11

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> both in terms of compensation and technical & creative challenges open to solve Can you name other "career paths" where are more technical & creative challenges open to solve? I am working on an indie game project right now and worked for a big corporation in a total different sector before and I must say, that when you talk about compensation, you might be right (at least, when you are working in a company), ... .…

From my experience, I think compensation might be more prevalent when you are indie because you are less likely to have a stable income compared to working in a company. But I may be wrong :)

I did not want to touch that topic, since there are different things to consider and experiences can differ.

I mentioned only working in a company, since from that what I saw in my country, compensation for ordinary developers in a company are far less than when working in other sectors as software developer (in deed, I do not know any sector, where payment is less than in the Gaming industry). At least one plus is that the Gaming industry is more likely to take people without formal education (which might also be connected to the lower wages).

Of course, when working in a company, you are less likely to not be able to pay your rent any more.

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#13

Post by emsy » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 6:37 PM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #5

emsy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most games are generic crap. I've seen crap games make money, but I haven't seen a great game fail. People see Flappy Bird and want to imitate it because it's easy. Those who work hard don't rely on luck can still build a sustainable business. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=45&v=1BCg31KVJok

> but I haven't seen a great game fail. Think for a bit about your sentence and what it implies :) (solution: that you've seen 100% of all great games ever submitted to the app store, which seems doubtful)

This is logical nitpicking and I don't even think you're right. It just implies that of all the games I've seen no great one failed. A game can be great by an arbitrary measure and still fail comercially.

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#14

Post by Reedx » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 6:47 PM UTC

emsy wrote: post #4

hellofunk wrote: post #2

Admire anyone who can go full time into the game industry, which is one of the most competitive anywhere. And to do so as an independent is a high challenge. To pull that off for five years deserves great merit. Anyone who has published games to Apple's app store knows how hard it is to see any money from it.

Most games are generic crap. I've seen crap games make money, but I haven't seen a great game fail. People see Flappy Bird and want to imitate it because it's easy. Those who work hard don't rely on luck can still build a sustainable business. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=45&v=1BCg31KVJok

I agree for the most part, but great games do fail even on the AAA side. See Psychonauts, Beyond Good & Evil, Okami... Critically acclaimed and loved by gamers, but commercial failures.

I'd guess it's more common in mobile and indie, but don't know for sure. I'd be really curious to see an in-depth analysis of it.

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#15

Post by rsaarelm » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 6:47 PM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #5

emsy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most games are generic crap. I've seen crap games make money, but I haven't seen a great game fail. People see Flappy Bird and want to imitate it because it's easy. Those who work hard don't rely on luck can still build a sustainable business. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=45&v=1BCg31KVJok

> but I haven't seen a great game fail. Think for a bit about your sentence and what it implies :) (solution: that you've seen 100% of all great games ever submitted to the app store, which seems doubtful)

It is falsifiable though. All you'd need is for someone to notice that a game that has been lingering in obscurity for years is actually great and start bringing attention to it.

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#16

Post by tapirl » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 7:00 PM UTC

emsy wrote: post #4

hellofunk wrote: post #2

Admire anyone who can go full time into the game industry, which is one of the most competitive anywhere. And to do so as an independent is a high challenge. To pull that off for five years deserves great merit. Anyone who has published games to Apple's app store knows how hard it is to see any money from it.

Most games are generic crap. I've seen crap games make money, but I haven't seen a great game fail. People see Flappy Bird and want to imitate it because it's easy. Those who work hard don't rely on luck can still build a sustainable business. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=45&v=1BCg31KVJok

Success or fail is more related to marketing than game originality and quality.

There are tons of cloned games sold well, and there are also many great original games aren't.

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#17

Post by ectoplasm » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 7:05 PM UTC

philsnow wrote: post #8

GuiA wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I haven't seen a great game fail. Think for a bit about your sentence and what it implies :) (solution: that you've seen 100% of all great games ever submitted to the app store, which seems doubtful)

Nonsense; the statement is true if he has seen exactly two games, both of which were "crap" and both of which failed.

The statement is also true if he hasn't seen any games. It's just an anecdote about his experience, that's fine.

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#18

Post by 147 » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 7:07 PM UTC

thearn4 wrote: post #6

hellofunk wrote: post #2

Admire anyone who can go full time into the game industry, which is one of the most competitive anywhere. And to do so as an independent is a high challenge. To pull that off for five years deserves great merit. Anyone who has published games to Apple's app store knows how hard it is to see any money from it.

Game development seems to be one of the most competitive and least forgiving corners of the larger software development industry. A long time ago, games are what originally motivated me to learn to program. But some point along the way, I came to believe (whether true or false) that game development was really not a very enticing career path, both in terms of compensation and technical & creative challenges open to s…

I was exactly like this, until one Christmas I was giving the book The Lean Startup and decided building web applications was more fun and practical.

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#19

Post by fauigerzigerk » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 7:14 PM UTC

ahmedbaracat wrote: post #10

thearn4 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game development seems to be one of the most competitive and least forgiving corners of the larger software development industry. A long time ago, games are what originally motivated me to learn to program. But some point along the way, I came to believe (whether true or false) that game development was really not a very enticing career path, both in terms of compensation and technical & creative challenges open to s…

I also started with game development for Windows phone using XNA, switched to marmalade then Unity. Stopped creating games a few months ago thinking mostly like you plus wondering how/if my games are solving real user problems or whether they are only providing distractions. However, searching for companies looking for developers with game development background and familiarity with Unity, I found a few startups who…

>wondering how/if my games are solving real user problems or whether they are only providing distractions.

Keeping ourselves entertained on this planet is a very real user problem. It has been a core part of all human cultures for millennia. As we become more productive at producing all the essentials for survival, entertainment will take an ever growing share of our economies.

Entertainment is the one industry that I'm sure will still exist in a 100 years and employing people. I would be very surprised if it were not at least 50% of our economies at that point.

Re: Five Years of Being a Full-Time Indie Game Developer

#20

Post by tobr » Sat, Aug 08, 2015, 7:25 PM UTC

emsy wrote: post #4

hellofunk wrote: post #2

Admire anyone who can go full time into the game industry, which is one of the most competitive anywhere. And to do so as an independent is a high challenge. To pull that off for five years deserves great merit. Anyone who has published games to Apple's app store knows how hard it is to see any money from it.

Most games are generic crap. I've seen crap games make money, but I haven't seen a great game fail. People see Flappy Bird and want to imitate it because it's easy. Those who work hard don't rely on luck can still build a sustainable business. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=45&v=1BCg31KVJok

Watched the video you linked. I think it's saying the opposite, i.e. failure or success is more due to marketing and PR than to how great the game is.

Not sure if that's entirely true, but it doesn't seem to support your argument.