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Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

ukiahcommunityblog.wordpress.com

451–460 of 462 posts

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#451
post #8

This appears to be copy and pasted straight from http://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/8974435/switzerland-work-life-b... - this link should point there instead.

Not only that but they[1] didn't bother to copy and paste the author's name. It's seems extra obnoxious to copy the entire article but not the author's name and two sentence bio. [1] https://ukiahcommunityblog.wordpress.com/2015/07/23/living-i... (I'm mentioning the original link--so this comment makes sense--in case the HN moderators later change the link to the real article on Vox.)

And that's why I also look at the comments before the actual link.

Or maybe not THE only, but it is a fine excuse.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#452
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much do you know about life in Poland? It's a rapidly developing country. You might be surprised.

Members of bottom 10% of Poland are picking fruits in France as we speak because said job is to shitty for bottom 10% of France.

A common misunderstanding.

My wife is from a very comfortable middle class Polish family and went to one of the best universities in Poland. In her summer holiday before starting university she worked in a factory in the UK for minimum wage assembling car headlights. She did this because the pound-złoty exchange rate made this work more financially rewarding than anything she could have done in Poland.

I have more examples of Poles who are working in the UK right now, simply because of the exchange rate.

I've met many UK-based Poles and not one has preferred life in the UK to life in Poland.

If anything, the exchange rate allows someone in the Polish bottom 10% to climb out of that 10% much more easily than a bottom 10% Frenchman could: Go to western Europe and work for the minimum wage for ten years. Upon their return they'll have more than enough for a nice house.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#453
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More money would make me happier. I'd give up a few Saturdays for it. One day a week is enough rest. Besides, few pleasures compare to productively working.

What's the point of earning even more money if you're too busy to spend it? There is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to money, past a certain point it's not worth the time you gave up to get it. Put it another way, when you reach retirement age, would you rather be a millionaire with health problems or a modestly rich person in great health?

Could you not potentially retire earlier? In that way you're basically "back-loading" all of your vacation time, if one could freely exchange salary for time off.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America you can choose your job based on how you want to live. You can pursue your life and goals based on what you want out of it. Is that not true in Switzerland? I think you've bought into little more than propaganda. Americans take off weekends. And how do you judge 330 million people when it comes to burn-out, given the vast differences among them all?

> In America you can choose your job based on how you want to live. So the millions of poor people having to work two or three shitty jobs just to make ends meet chose to do so and want to live like that? Bullshit. Go watch some documentaries about the subject.

The number of people who can choose their job based on how they want to live is dwindling rapidly.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#455
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I don't see why it can't scale. Whether you've got 50 blocks of city employing a specific social structure or 500 blocks at a ground level its the same. Granted mega cities add a level of complexity, but on a very broad level I don't see why people here thing you can't scale a system employed by a 8m country to say 80m. Its just more of the same.

Well just compare a large company with tens of thousands of people, to a small one, the smaller ones are much more nimble and able to implement new best practices. Imagine you had 1 team of 10 people working on ABC, or 100 groups of 10 people, working on ABC, yet having to cooperate between groups. It's really hard, it creates all kinds of friction, you need all kinds of overhead human capital to organise everything,…

Very valid points, but I think your example is a little tangential in that I'm talking about societal structures, not an organisation where there is a need to coordinate. Societies are self-organising to some extent, especially in their local cluster. e.g.

Suppose you have a room full of 5 people building a bridge with legos. They're a small group and thus benefit from say the agility small teams provide. They finish their lego bridge in record time & live happily ever after.

If you need to provide lego bridges for 10 people though then you've got a choice: you can stick 10 people into the room and make them build a bridge twice as big, or you can have two rooms each building their own bridge in close proximity & benefiting from the speed of small teams.

Thats a simplification sure, but I feel societal structure (e.g. the mindset that makes canada's healthcare work) are to some extent imprinted in the people & thus apply regardless of the size of the border on some random map. If you stick another hospital on a map in Canada it'll work just as well.

As a side note, not convinced about the big company thing either. It can certainly be like that, but well managed its not inevitable. I work for one of the biggest companies out there & absolutely everything is split into ad-hoc ~7 man teams that have essentially absolute power over that project.

Bit fuzzy post/argument I know - apologies for that.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came from the other end wherein I believed social safety net and welfares breeds parasitic behavior. But now I've come to believe the benefits of those programs outweigh the negative aspect where a section may starts taking undue advantage of it. In the absence of such safety nets, I think people will go for more safer bets which make them financially stable as opposed to riskier bets which may bring innovation but…

Irrelevant and historically dubious. Without a strong common culture that solves the prisoners dilemma of social safety-nets, they will collapse. If you want Switzerland, you need Swiss.

The "prisoners dilemma" arises from politicians & the people in power playing society for their benefits. Homogeneity is not a necessary condition.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#457
post #449
post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That says nothing about other people. If you say group X is different because it has more of quantity Y, then it means that you think non-Xers have less of quantity Y. You can't say a demographic is noted for a virtue, then say that this is not a comment on other people - because those other people are the baseline against which the measure is made. > You really should apologize. Really? Right after you accuse me a…

I'm not down voting you and I don't have any friends on here to do so. I don't know why you are getting greyed out. I looked back through your comment history. Mostly reasonable comments with a couple of sort of unfounded accusations of trolling. I did see one comment where you talked about Japanese being hard workers and industrious. Would you consider that calling everyone lazy? It doesn't matter. I gave my opinion…

Ironically this is a good example of the screed in my profile :)

We're being downvoted because we were in something of a flamewar, and people are trying to discourage that with downvotes. If there were mandatory reasons and attributions required for modding, you wouldn't have to second-guess what was going on. I also know it's not you downvoting because you can't downvote a direct reply to your own comment.

Anyway, yes, time to move on.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrelevant and historically dubious. Without a strong common culture that solves the prisoners dilemma of social safety-nets, they will collapse. If you want Switzerland, you need Swiss.

The "prisoners dilemma" arises from politicians & the people in power playing society for their benefits. Homogeneity is not a necessary condition.

Historically incorrect. Thanks for playing, kid.

Re: Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture

#460
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I don't see why it can't scale. Whether you've got 50 blocks of city employing a specific social structure or 500 blocks at a ground level its the same. Granted mega cities add a level of complexity, but on a very broad level I don't see why people here thing you can't scale a system employed by a 8m country to say 80m. Its just more of the same.

Well just compare a large company with tens of thousands of people, to a small one, the smaller ones are much more nimble and able to implement new best practices. Imagine you had 1 team of 10 people working on ABC, or 100 groups of 10 people, working on ABC, yet having to cooperate between groups. It's really hard, it creates all kinds of friction, you need all kinds of overhead human capital to organise everything,…

Wall-mart beats the mom and pop stores Starbucks kills the local coffe shops. Local grocery shops just can' compete with Tescos.

In academic terms, this is known as the "economies of scale" And there is a reason why the mom and pop stores are always the underdog when Wall-Mart moves in. The economies of scale are bigger than the diseconomies of scale by degrees of magnitude. I mean, it would be nice to imagine that the nimble local stores are going to win out over the big chains, but theory says thats not going to happen, and in practice we observe that this does not happen.

The economies of scale are simply so much larger than the diseconomies that they steamroll them withotu noticing that they were ever there.

What is more is, we can observe how these things scale in countries from Iceland at 300 000 people, to Finland at 5 million to Germany at 80 million. There doesn't seem to be much evidence of diseconomies of scale over this span.

I dont really think we can assume they'd somehow spring into existence beyond the population of Germany.

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