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Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

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21–30 of 229 posts

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#21
Labor has been on the decline for years. The union corruption and bashing seems never ending. The ignorance in the general populace allows this to happen, as people will vote against their own best interests.

I would assume that the populace movement that is gaining steam with sanders and warren will start to expand if the inequality continues.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#22
post #6

This article doesn't answer the question and seems primary based on nostalgia. My theory: the Fed's zero interest rate policy is very good at inflating asset values: S&P500, housing, you name it. Rising income is a second-order effect: we hope that rising asset values will lead to increased wages. That used to be the case, but no longer is. Why? Because of automation and globalization probably. So, the Fed has the pe…

The reason asset prices rise first in a fed led recovery is because new money enters the system through bank loans. Naturally, banks want to lend against hard assets, so the first thing that new money buys is property, stocks and other income producing assets.

This explains the how, but not the why. I have found in life the best way to work out why something happens is to follow the money.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#23
post #6

This article doesn't answer the question and seems primary based on nostalgia. My theory: the Fed's zero interest rate policy is very good at inflating asset values: S&P500, housing, you name it. Rising income is a second-order effect: we hope that rising asset values will lead to increased wages. That used to be the case, but no longer is. Why? Because of automation and globalization probably. So, the Fed has the pe…

This is not a bug it is a feature. The rich are a lot smarter today than when they were the descendants of feudal landlords - 100 years of meritocracy combined with assortative mating makes for a very clever ruling class. Edit. Spelling.

My social networks include a fair number of wealthy people. Some of their kids are dumb as rocks, and they don't have to improve themselves, ever. Those are the real welfare queens. Sometimes a fool can be made a leader by other people in power. Believe me, I'm American.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#24

you dont know high cost of living with low salary if you haven't lived in vancouver, bc. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/18UwaThgGikSXzinn... You can see based on that the average is around $45~50k CAD (if the salary field is blank assume $50k or less as these are less well known, smaller companies with tighter budgets) rent for studio or 1 bedroom apartment in downtown area where lot of jobs are located i…

Vancouver is bad, but nowhere close to that bad! (edit: his post was originally just the first line, to clarify.)

I could argue it anecdotally (I live in BC), but here are cold hard numbers instead:

> The median household income across New York City stands at $50,711[1]

> One bedroom apartments in New York rent for $3039 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $3805.[2]

Compare:

> Vancouver Median household income of $73,390 [3] (~$55,877 USD)

> Vancouver, Average 1 bedroom rental $1561, 2 bedroom: $1972 [4]

1 http://project.wnyc.org/median-income-nabes/

2 https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-new-york-rent-tre...

3 http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/f...

4 http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/esub/64467/64467_2014_A01.p..., see Figure 7

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#25

you dont know high cost of living with low salary if you haven't lived in vancouver, bc. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/18UwaThgGikSXzinn... You can see based on that the average is around $45~50k CAD (if the salary field is blank assume $50k or less as these are less well known, smaller companies with tighter budgets) rent for studio or 1 bedroom apartment in downtown area where lot of jobs are located i…

Portland, OR is getting pretty bad as well. Average cost to own a home in 2015 is $313,000[1]. I can't find a current house hold income figure but I know it's pretty low. Definitely below the national average IIRC. The thing to note is that many of those houses selling for ~$300k are very small ( 1. http://www.movingtoportland.net/wp-content/uploads/AverageMe...

$313k? That's a pittance compared to Vancouver where the average home is over $1M. Even in the shitty east side with drug-dealers and prostitutes hanging out on your street you still pay over $1M for a detached home.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portland, OR is getting pretty bad as well. Average cost to own a home in 2015 is $313,000[1]. I can't find a current house hold income figure but I know it's pretty low. Definitely below the national average IIRC. The thing to note is that many of those houses selling for ~$300k are very small ( 1. http://www.movingtoportland.net/wp-content/uploads/AverageMe...

$313k? That's a pittance compared to Vancouver where the average home is over $1M. Even in the shitty east side with drug-dealers and prostitutes hanging out on your street you still pay over $1M for a detached home.

Fair enough. Perhaps rental was a better comparison. They are very close, and Portland pays way less than Vancouver (in addition to the US not having healthcare) - I'd say it's more expensive to buy in Vancouver, more expensive to rent in Portland.

1. https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-vancouver-bc-rent...

2. https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-portland-or-rent-...

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portland, OR is getting pretty bad as well. Average cost to own a home in 2015 is $313,000[1]. I can't find a current house hold income figure but I know it's pretty low. Definitely below the national average IIRC. The thing to note is that many of those houses selling for ~$300k are very small ( 1. http://www.movingtoportland.net/wp-content/uploads/AverageMe...

$313k? That's a pittance compared to Vancouver where the average home is over $1M. Even in the shitty east side with drug-dealers and prostitutes hanging out on your street you still pay over $1M for a detached home.

its over $2.23M now apparently.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ho...

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a bug it is a feature. The rich are a lot smarter today than when they were the descendants of feudal landlords - 100 years of meritocracy combined with assortative mating makes for a very clever ruling class. Edit. Spelling.

Not exactly true, back in feudal times just being able to read was quite a privilege. They also had a lock on information. We're much more on equal footing in terms of ability to gain information. Whether we act on the information is another issue.

Are you kidding?

What does a family line which has had uninterrupted, exclusive access to a personal library know?

I mean think about it--what is that family like? That family which has held on to the same chunk of physical space, with books and notebooks, for several generations.

"Equal footing in terms of ability to gain information", my ass!

My own toddler gets confused when he tries to describe his home--probably because he's moved three times in as many years.

I remember the encyclopedias I read as a child. But, I don't have them. I can't review them. I can't consult my notes, nor smell them and get connected to the concrete memory of the day I learned about phases of matter or dry cell batteries.

Those things are important. They change the slope of the playing field.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a bug it is a feature. The rich are a lot smarter today than when they were the descendants of feudal landlords - 100 years of meritocracy combined with assortative mating makes for a very clever ruling class. Edit. Spelling.

Not exactly true, back in feudal times just being able to read was quite a privilege. They also had a lock on information. We're much more on equal footing in terms of ability to gain information. Whether we act on the information is another issue.

In order to have an effective meritocracy you have to have universal education. You then pick the top 0.1% and invite them to join you and marry your son or daughter. The whole economic system is designed to identify the very clever no matter their background and bring them into the ruling class.

Re: Why Rent Is So High and Pay So Low

#30

The author looks to be drawing a lot of conclusions from a very limited set of data. His examples about prices are only from Manhattan and London. He also compares median wages in New York to rents in Manhattan, which is just lazy. I don't doubt that the rent/income ratio has gotten worse in New York over time, but an apples to apples comparison would have been nice to see. I don't even disagree with the sentiment ex…

This is a great point. The author's last graph tries to make the point that that the fraction of income taken from tenants has outpaced tenant wage growth over a period of decades.

In present day SV (especially SF), most landlords will require tenants spend no more than 30% of their income on rent as part of the application process-- it's a somewhat fixed rule-of-thumb. As rents have risen, a lot of tenants in non-rent-controlled housing have been effectively priced out and displaced elsewhere.

So it's actually not so easy to demonstrate that landlords have been taking a larger fraction of tenant income; one must adjust for the fact that greedy landlords will also drive away poorer tenants. Simpson's Paradox at work.

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