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U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

washingtonpost.com

51–60 of 194 posts

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#51

There's a little bit of dodging going around in this article... What's really going on is we still have a high amount of churn in the funnel, we're just spending more to hide it. > "The 2014 numbers, which came out earlier this year, show that the number of managed colonies -- that is, commercial honey-producing bee colonies managed by human beekeepers -- is now the highest it's been in 20 years." So the absolute num…

also worthy of note:

> show that the number of managed colonies

Says nothing about wild bees. If they're declining more rapidly than before that's still a problem.

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#52

There's a little bit of dodging going around in this article... What's really going on is we still have a high amount of churn in the funnel, we're just spending more to hide it. > "The 2014 numbers, which came out earlier this year, show that the number of managed colonies -- that is, commercial honey-producing bee colonies managed by human beekeepers -- is now the highest it's been in 20 years." So the absolute num…

The author is actually expliciting stating "Yep, there is an increase in bee deaths but the total number of bees is substantially higher so the supposed negative effect of these increased deaths is overstated or wrong" I don't think that's dodgy.

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#53
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're referring to neonicotinoids. Let's stipulate that neonicotinoids are in fact the root cause of CCD, which is defined as the increase in overwintering colony losses. Honey bees are a livestock animal, tied directly to agriculture. Neonicotinoids are popular in part because they're a narrow spectrum pesticide targeted at insect biology, and have fewer ill effects on other mammals than other pesticides. Here's th…

Because honeybees are just one of many pollinating insects whose numbers are falling dramatically. They just happen to get talked about a lot in the press because there are people with a direct economic interest in them.

Can you cite statistics showing that e.g. mason bee populations are collapsing?

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#54

Buying more and more bees is a very expensive solution. Perhaps I'm just a poor beekeeper (maybe true?) but I would have to sell my honey at untenable prices if I was looking to make money on my beekeeping. For example, I've spent $1600 on bees and equipment, I've harvested 3 gallons of honey. I would have to sell that honey at $44/Pound to break even. Now hopefully over the long term this goes down a lot as the upfr…

Honey sales aren't your only revenue source. You can also charge farms for transporting your bees there and pollinating their crops. And I believe the article said this price point is also increasing.

They are your only source on the small "hobby" scale (maybe wax and pollen too but that is more labor intensive) but pollination contracts aren't open to you until you're doing this full time.

Now, Hobby scale honey can usually be sold for more than wholesale honey that the pollination guys use to offload their crop so hopefully that makes up the difference.

For me, I'll never catch up if I keep having the massive losses I've been having -- even if I sell my honey for $7/lb ($8 total including the jar and label). The wholesale price is around $2-2.50/lb

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#55
post #14
post #5

Life finds a way. I think in some ways, CCD has probably "pruned" the bee population in a good way. Beekeeping allowed weaker hives that would have normally died off in the wild to continue to spawn new hives. CCD has reversed that trend, and may have improved the overall strength of the bee population genetics.

> CCD has probably "pruned" the bee population in a good way A reduction in the population is never a good thing. Is this some sort of neo-eugenics viewpoint? Pruning the population will not create some sort of super-bee. That's not how it works. It will enhance whatever qualities are being selected for, but it will reduce the genetic diversity in the population, making it vulnerable to a hole raft of new diseases an…

Reduction in population allocates more reproduction-relevant resources to the survivors. Resistance genes spread faster if the threat kills the non-resistant. (It is much easier to outcompete a corpse than an invalid.)

But ancestor post is also presuming that it is possible for bees to acquire genetic resistance to CCD. As we are not entirely certain about the exact mechanism involved, which may or may not have something to do with pesticides, chemicals in HFCS, dietary deficiency disease, or mites, it's hard to say whether any random mutation could protect against CCD without also making the colony unable to reproduce. For instance, if CCD is caused by a dietary deficiency, a colony is very unlikely to spontaneously acquire the ability to synthesize the missing nutrient, unless the species lost that ability at some point.

For instance, it is far more likely that humans could re-acquire the ability to synthesize ascorbate than it is that we might spontaneously gain the ability to synthesize our own omega-3 fatty acids. E. coli evolution experiments show it is possible, but the selection pressure has to be maintained over thousands of generations.

Applied human brainpower to the specific mechanisms of the threat is going to cure CCD much faster than bee breeding, which in turn is faster than natural bee evolution.

The only good behind the pruning of the population is that it is scaring the human agricultural industry into investing resources to stop further losses.

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#56
post #38

There's a little bit of dodging going around in this article... What's really going on is we still have a high amount of churn in the funnel, we're just spending more to hide it. > "The 2014 numbers, which came out earlier this year, show that the number of managed colonies -- that is, commercial honey-producing bee colonies managed by human beekeepers -- is now the highest it's been in 20 years." So the absolute num…

You're referring to neonicotinoids. Let's stipulate that neonicotinoids are in fact the root cause of CCD, which is defined as the increase in overwintering colony losses. Honey bees are a livestock animal, tied directly to agriculture. Neonicotinoids are popular in part because they're a narrow spectrum pesticide targeted at insect biology, and have fewer ill effects on other mammals than other pesticides. Here's th…

So brutally rapid market driven natural selection of the honey bee population is a good thing, hmm. Darwinian both financially and biologically, and fits with prevailing American economic philosophy. I venture that we're performing an uncontrolled experiment with known benefits and risks we are just beginning to understand. Not worth it. One can only hope the E.U invades in Operation American Freedom and imposes the Precautionary Principle on us.

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#57
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly pesticides.

yeah, research is coalescing around neonicotinoids being the primary culprit, as they weaken bee immune systems.

You are at least the second commentor to suggest neonicotinoids as the primary factor. I've seen them discussed elsewhere too, but cannot figure out with the modest data available how folks can state such a thing with anything approaching a reasonable level of confidence.

And that's consequential if that causes one to stop looking too early. Maybe I've missed something. Is there some persuasive evidence you can make me aware of that points to neonicotinoids likely being the primary culprit?

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#58
post #56
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're referring to neonicotinoids. Let's stipulate that neonicotinoids are in fact the root cause of CCD, which is defined as the increase in overwintering colony losses. Honey bees are a livestock animal, tied directly to agriculture. Neonicotinoids are popular in part because they're a narrow spectrum pesticide targeted at insect biology, and have fewer ill effects on other mammals than other pesticides. Here's th…

So brutally rapid market driven natural selection of the honey bee population is a good thing, hmm. Darwinian both financially and biologically, and fits with prevailing American economic philosophy. I venture that we're performing an uncontrolled experiment with known benefits and risks we are just beginning to understand. Not worth it. One can only hope the E.U invades in Operation American Freedom and imposes the…

Honey bees are not American. They're livestock brought into the country by settlers.

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#59
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the article is just putting forth very misleading and cherry-picked data. It's a little bit amazing that he actually mentions splitting and higher hive count close to each other without realizing that this will not increase the pollinator count by twofold. A real beefarmer has a comment on the article that everyone should read, it's illuminating. """ Mr Ingraham---do not assume you can read a few papers on CCD an…

This beekeeper's comment doesn't appear to contain any testable arguments. They don't like the fact that maintenance of honey bee stock will require aggressive colony creation, but they don't appear to have an argument to back that up that isn't essentially an appeal to the naturalist fallacy. This is also a beekeeper attempting to husband honey bees using feral bee populations, 98+% of which were annihilated by the…

It contains several testable points. Does splitting a hive create two weak hives? How do you characterize this weakness and do they recover from it? What is the genetic diversity of the bee population? Is it growing or shrinking? Toxic chemical free forage is it growing or shrinking? Forage diversity should also be easy to measure and track changes over time. Other than the personal attacks what did you find not testable?

Re: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high

#60

There's a little bit of dodging going around in this article... What's really going on is we still have a high amount of churn in the funnel, we're just spending more to hide it. > "The 2014 numbers, which came out earlier this year, show that the number of managed colonies -- that is, commercial honey-producing bee colonies managed by human beekeepers -- is now the highest it's been in 20 years." So the absolute num…

I don't understand how this would work. You can't turn money into bees. You can turn bees into more bees, and money can be used to persuade people to put in more effort to make this happen, but at some point the bees themselves have to be reproducing.

I thought the whole problem with colony collapse and the honeybee crisis was that bees were declining and nobody knew how to stop it. If you can stop it with money, maybe that's not ideal, but is it a major problem anymore?

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