Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#91

Post by cousin_it » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:34 PM UTC

dylanjermiah wrote: post #4

guelo wrote: post #3

If you look at what has happened in China after Google left, how they were able to quickly grow massive web companies, protectionism seems like a no-brainer for every slightly advanced country. Silicon Valley sees the huge first-mover advantages and is moving as fast as possible to move into every liberalized market. But it makes no sense for a country to allow Silicon Valley to take these industries for themselves.…

At the expense of the citizens. Why not let companies compete?

You got your priorities backwards. Good jobs are more scarce than iphones, and more important for the well-being of people.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#92

Post by marrs » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:37 PM UTC

johnsea wrote: post #56

icebraining wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as the price / performance is not totally off, I'd always rather pay a bit more for a slightly worse service if I know VAT money will stay in my city, tax will be paid in my state, salaries would be paid in the same job market where I am, and the profit would be invested in my neighborhood. Nobody prevents you from buying local right now, so that's a red herring. If you want to force others to do the same, yo…

This leads to nowhere. I could reply: And you pay for the locally laid off people and support the community which now fails necessary means?

Indeed. Also you often are prevented from buying locally. My taxes are spent on foreign trains, ambulances, buses, power stations, you name it.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#93

Post by afeef » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:41 PM UTC

old twats.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#94

Post by pgeorgi » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:42 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #87

_xzu wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More probably this is routing issue. Connection between Deutsche Telekom and Youtube servers is more busy than connections between DT -> Swiss server -> Youtube.

DTAG (Deutsche Telekom AG) essentially does the exact same with YouTube that Verizon did with Netflix: They refuse to peer with them at all. ALL traffic from DTAG users first runs to a Level3 datacenter in New York, and from there goes to other users. While all other German ISPs have a peering node at DECIX

To add, when you're asking DTAG to peer, they determine the location where they set up the peering point with you. That's typically somewhere out of nowhere, so you also have to rent the pipe that brings your data there - from them, obviously.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#95

Post by Dylan16807 » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:43 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #71

Dylan16807 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can make licenses, but if someone gets a copy outside of the licensed channel, you have no recourse.

Not sure about that... In general, if you buy a stolen car, it's still stolen, and while you won't be held criminally responsible, you'll still lose your money. I guess it's the same with data licences.

It's not really a license on the data. Data licenses are based on copyright laws, and grant permission under them.

Instead it's a contract with a nondisclosure clause, and contracts only bind the participants.

It's also not a trade secret, with access being sold so openly.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#96

Post by marrs » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:44 PM UTC

abritinthebay wrote: post #21

JoshTriplett wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why Google was the first search engine ever, and before that people just banged rocks together in the general vicinity of phone lines, because any prior search engine would have had an insurmountable first-mover advantage that Google could not possibly have overcome?

While I agree with the general point you are making - the Internet as a whole had not reached a general populace tipping point until after Google was a major player in search. I think we, as technologically included people, tend to overestimate how old the internet is to most people outside of maybe early email usage. Also the implosion of companies (like Yahoo) is a factor here. If Yahoo hadn't been really stupid th…

I think you forget just how much better at search Google was. Google's replacement will probably be much better at privacy.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#97

Post by todd8 » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:45 PM UTC

stannol wrote: post #76

adventured wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't kick out the Americans without assuming dictatorship-like command powers over the entire EU economic zone. That only functions at all in China - to whatever mediocre extent it is functioning today - because that's a unified market, one country, under one leadership. Any attempt by Europe to try that, would destroy the European economy. Germany is hyper dependent on exports. The US eats most of its own dog f…

Nowadays no first-world country is capable of being fully self-sustaining without suffering immensely - especially the US, which relies heavily on cheap energy with large amounts being imported.

While I agree with your point about self-sustainability, the US now produces almost as much energy as it uses. From the world bank (http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.IMP.CONS.ZS) these are 2013 figures percent of energy use imported:

    Denmark      4
    France      46
    Germany     62
    Italy       77
    Netherlands 10
    Spain       71
    Sweden      29
    Japan       94
    Korea       83

    US          15
    Canada     -73
    Mexico     -19

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#98

Post by scholia » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:48 PM UTC

johnsea wrote: post #51

kennethh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were many search companies in the start and for a long time all of them did the same, google came and delivered a better product and kept innovation. People came and saw the google homesite with a logo, textfield and a button. This is simple we can make this also without knowing all the stuff behind it. Search is now a mature industry, it is always better to go for the new places where there are no dominant pla…

Google's search was - for me - much better some years ago than it is now. But now there is no alternative (well, duckduckgo, not yet on googles niveau but getting better). Don't see the innovation with Ad Words: as _every_ small company can use it, you fight towards the bottom and sometimes against cowards instead for quality which an independent non-ad-financed search engine would much better reveal.

That's true for me too. Many of my Google results are buried in "fresh" blogspam, none of which contains anything either original or interesting.

This may be the result of good search and Sturgeon's law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

If so, the real problem is that Google search is incapable of identifying content by quality. As a result, the more Google searches, the more crap it finds, and the worse the results become.

Refutations of this idle hypothesis welcome ;-)

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#99

Post by wil421 » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:49 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #3

If you look at what has happened in China after Google left, how they were able to quickly grow massive web companies, protectionism seems like a no-brainer for every slightly advanced country. Silicon Valley sees the huge first-mover advantages and is moving as fast as possible to move into every liberalized market. But it makes no sense for a country to allow Silicon Valley to take these industries for themselves.…

No Americans are forcing you to use our services. If you have a problem then don't use them it's that simple. You're able to boycott anything on the Internet.

I'm tired of Anti-American sentiment when your governments are in bed with ours. American companies weren't the only ones sharing data. German and Belgium telecoms were in bed with spy agencies and not just with the Five Eyes. In public Merkle was outraged but her spy agency was just as much to blame.

This is a global problem not just a U.S. and EU one.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#100

Post by bobajeff » Fri, Aug 07, 2015, 12:51 PM UTC

choppaface wrote: post #43

Much of this debate centers on the premonition that Google highlights their own content and services in order to fight competition and maximize their own profits. They are acting intentionally and rationally. But their monopoly is hurting others, so we (er, the EU) convict(s) Google of malice. However, another plausible position is that Google is merely behaving negligently . There are some studies (paid by competito…

Probably because being able to have your monopoly ended by government for no other reason than you're dominant goes against the concept of a free market. The fear I think is such a move would disincentize people from building companies.