Live data from Hacker News

Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

bloomberg.com

71–80 of 187 posts

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#71
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not copyright. You can still enforce a licence on the data you provide. E.g. Exchanges do this all the time with market price data.

Sure, you can make licenses, but if someone gets a copy outside of the licensed channel, you have no recourse.

Not sure about that... In general, if you buy a stolen car, it's still stolen, and while you won't be held criminally responsible, you'll still lose your money. I guess it's the same with data licences.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#72
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an easy solution for Yelp: opt out of Google search results. What Yelp wants, is to have their cake and eat it too. They want to benefit from what Google offers, and they want Google to behave exactly as they would prefer, assuming control over Google's product through government power. Classic competitor hypocrisy, the same behavior displayed 15 years ago by Microsoft's extremely envious competition. They…

If search results that hit Yelp data linked to Yelp there'd be no problem. However if it links to Google Places because Google scraped the Yelp data and loaded it into the Places database - that's a problem. Suppose someone launched an 'Encyclopedia Search' service that searched Wikipedia, Encyclopedia Britanica, etc and linked to their sites. The the service then started loading the Wikipedia and Britanica content i…

I thought Wikipedia's license specifically allowed that (presumably Britannica's does not)?

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity why do you need to register a company in every country (assuming you are US based since there is no sales tax in the EU anywhere ;) ). I haven't done it but isn't the thing with the new VAT regulations that you can pay your taxes to one revenue service (and just register with one) and they will divide it according to your sales data (e.g. the customers country)? Or do you mean that you have to p…

>I haven't done it but isn't the thing with the new VAT regulations that you can pay your taxes to one revenue service (and just register with one) and they will divide it according to your sales data I think that only works if you have limited business, but I'm not sure. I believe the problem is that we're in a country with 25% VAT, but if we want to charge our German customer only 19%, we need to do that via a Germ…

I'm not sure whether you have the best information available. VAT/GST must be paid depending on the country of the customer, through a form, and doesn't require a local company. The location of the company doesn't matter and we have an EU-wide VAT identifier. http://www.happybootstrapper.com/2014/im-us-whatll-happen-ju...

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't kick out the Americans without assuming dictatorship-like command powers over the entire EU economic zone. That only functions at all in China - to whatever mediocre extent it is functioning today - because that's a unified market, one country, under one leadership. Any attempt by Europe to try that, would destroy the European economy. Germany is hyper dependent on exports. The US eats most of its own dog f…

> Kick the Americans out? Ok, well now BMW, Porsche, and Mercedes are banned in the US. Germany just lost a huge part of its economy (look up the two biggest markets for their vehicles: the US and China). As someone living in a German city which is a world leading car manufacturing center, I would actually like to see the end of German auto industry. The whole German economic system is geared towards those big car ma…

I think you greatly underestimate how many jobs are dependent on our auto industry. It is not only the cars, big companies like Bosch and a plethora of hidden champions, that dominate their segment but nobody recognizes, would not be possible if it were not for the close connection at home to a world-wide leading industry.

I am not even sure, that Silicon Valley is ahead when it comes to "digital stuff" inside cars. It is my perception at least, that companies like Mercedes or BMW had many of the digital helpers first. I therefor think Germany would be a great place to start a tech-startup apart from the next social network.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#75
post #31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short term expense of the citizens. Nurturing local business is a long term benefit strategy. Protectionism is how every nation on the planet developed. Why are Americans driving South Korean/Japanese cars and not the other way around? Because the south koreans and the japanese imposed large tariffs on car imports and the US did not. Their car companies had free range on their own turf. Which gave them time and money…

The US practices a huge amount of protectionism as well. The reason that the Americans are driving Japanese cars is that they were built in the US (which happens because of the protectionism). Ford doesn't build cars in Japan. The end result is good for most people (consumers get more choice, jobs are still in the country).

Yes and those japanese companies developed in their home turf and became strong enough to compete in the world market. The japanese government nurtured their industry. When it comes to internet based businesses this is not done. The end result is silicon valley dominating everyone else because that's where it all started and where the most money right now is.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#76
post #3

If you look at what has happened in China after Google left, how they were able to quickly grow massive web companies, protectionism seems like a no-brainer for every slightly advanced country. Silicon Valley sees the huge first-mover advantages and is moving as fast as possible to move into every liberalized market. But it makes no sense for a country to allow Silicon Valley to take these industries for themselves.…

You can't kick out the Americans without assuming dictatorship-like command powers over the entire EU economic zone. That only functions at all in China - to whatever mediocre extent it is functioning today - because that's a unified market, one country, under one leadership. Any attempt by Europe to try that, would destroy the European economy. Germany is hyper dependent on exports. The US eats most of its own dog f…

Nowadays no first-world country is capable of being fully self-sustaining without suffering immensely - especially the US, which relies heavily on cheap energy with large amounts being imported.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#77
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as the price / performance is not totally off, I'd always rather pay a bit more for a slightly worse service if I know VAT money will stay in my city, tax will be paid in my state, salaries would be paid in the same job market where I am, and the profit would be invested in my neighborhood. Nobody prevents you from buying local right now, so that's a red herring. If you want to force others to do the same, yo…

This leads to nowhere. I could reply: And you pay for the locally laid off people and support the community which now fails necessary means?

[deleted]

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#78
post #29
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How? Great firewall of Europe? Or what exactly are you proposing? Forcing them to follow basic rules of fairness is usually enough to keep them out.

"Basic rules of fairness" is meaningless crap that roughly translates to, "we aren't as good so we will keep passing regulations in favor of locals until it's insane for anyone else to try." Frankly, it wouldn't be that surprising if net neutrality started getting violated in Europe by protectionism laws.

We see "fairness" as "fairness for the customer". Jesus said "justice in favour of the poor". If it's just, saying it's in favour of someone ahead of the judgement is ridiculously biased.

However, if we granted more fairness to the companies, we wouldn't have more or better companies. We'd just be invaded by huge US companies, because they're just better and move faster. So, yes, we have to start with smaller actors who just rely on the openness of the markets of dominant actors: We couldn't build Apple but we rely on their Appstore to have fair rules, we couldn't build Amazon EC2 but our companies rely on the openness of the EC2 service, we couldn't build Windows but we rely on Microsoft publishing its API. And this API documentation is exactly the subject of the $2bn fine that Microsoft received from EU in 2003.

I'm sorry, perhaps US performs too well, but we need open APIs in Europe. From the fines I've seen, the decisions aren't generic protectionism, they're focused on keeping free market so we can have some local startups too.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#79
post #20
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> kick out the Americans How? Great firewall of Europe? Or what exactly are you proposing?

> How? Great firewall of Europe? Or what exactly are you proposing? Forcing them to follow basic rules of fairness is usually enough to keep them out.

That might keep out the euros and pounds they pay to employees there: forced liquidation of Google's physical European presences is not a good outcome for anyone. But it wouldn't keep out their products. It just means a lot of job losses and higher latencies on page loads as they get served from US datacenters instead of EU datacenters.

Re: Google’s $6B Miscalculation on the EU

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were many search companies in the start and for a long time all of them did the same, google came and delivered a better product and kept innovation. People came and saw the google homesite with a logo, textfield and a button. This is simple we can make this also without knowing all the stuff behind it. Search is now a mature industry, it is always better to go for the new places where there are no dominant pla…

I agree that protectionism is normally bad, but the reason that it is bad is that it suppresses competition most of the time. If guelo's argument that Google not being in China fostered more tech companies in China is correct, then removing an initially dominant foreign company with big first mover advantage and economies of scale can actually increase competition in the market. That said, once the home grown compani…

For reference, an economist would call this the "infant industries" rationale for protectionism and it is generally considered a reasonable policy tool when done purposefully.
Post reply on HN